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Subject: How does Nisei Mk II work? rss

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BJ
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Is this how Nisei MK II works: after the corp scores Nisei MK II, he puts a counter on it. During a subsequent run the corp may remove the counter, place it on an agenda card in the server the runner is currently running against. When the runner reveals the hosted agenda, it ends his run?

Thanks in advance.
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Steven Tu
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The ability consumes the counter, not moves it somewhere. You can use the ability to end a run, at any time paid abilities may be used.

For when paid abilities may be used, consult the structure of a run table, in the rulebook, or: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/921141/structure-of-a-run-te...

When the ability is used, the run ends. You don't need a piece of ice to end a run.
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Adam
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bjhenderson wrote:
Is this how Nisei MK II works: after the corp scores Nisei MK II, he puts a counter on it. During a subsequent run the corp may remove the counter, place it on an agenda card in the server the runner is currently running against. When the runner reveals the hosted agenda, it ends his run?

Thanks in advance.

No. When the corp removes token from the Nisei, the run ends imminently. He can do it after the Runner has passed through all ice, but before he declared to access cards.
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Gregory Pettigrew
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bjhenderson wrote:
Is this how Nisei MK II works: after the corp scores Nisei MK II, he puts a counter on it. During a subsequent run the corp may remove the counter, place it on an agenda card in the server the runner is currently running against. When the runner reveals the hosted agenda, it ends his run?

Thanks in advance.


What's probably confusing you is the "hosted agenda counter" text. If a card reads : , it is a paid ability that lets you spend the counter or token to do the thing.

So a scored Nisei MK II has a hosted agenda counter and the text:

Hosted agenda counter: End the run.

This allows you, at any time you can use Paid Abilities, to spend the counter and end the run.
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Alejandro G.
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...best Agenda in the game, hands down.
Reminds me of a time, a runner decided to run a server on their first click. They ran through 4 pieces of ICE and prior to accessing the "Agenda" that was advanced 3 times, I used Nisei MK II to end the run.

They scoffed and said, "that was only my first click and I have plenty of credits to get through again." So they ran again, knowing I couldn't stop them...

The look on their face when they accessed a Junebug advanced 3 times, taking 6 net damage with 3 cards in hand was priceless. Nisei MK II is the perfect agenda to help setup traps as I did in the above scenario.

I'm stacking Junebugs deep and SELLIN' THEM CHEAP! SUCKERS!

I rarely reveal my tricks, but I couldn't pass up this opportunity.
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Thank you for the replies. I get it now.
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
...best Agenda in the game, hands down.
Reminds me of a time, a runner decided to run a server on their first click. They ran through 4 pieces of ICE and prior to accessing the "Agenda" that was advanced 3 times, I used Nisei MK II to end the run.

They scoffed and said, "that was only my first click and I have plenty of credits to get through again." So they ran again, knowing I couldn't stop them...

The look on their face when they accessed a Junebug advanced 3 times, taking 6 net damage with 3 cards in hand was priceless. Nisei MK II is the perfect agenda to help setup traps as I did in the above scenario.


How did Nisei help there? Would the runner not have lost on hitting Junebug on the attempt before you hit them with Nisei? (Not arguing, just making sure I get the strategy).
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Lawcomic wrote:
xpiredsodapop wrote:
...best Agenda in the game, hands down.
Reminds me of a time, a runner decided to run a server on their first click. They ran through 4 pieces of ICE and prior to accessing the "Agenda" that was advanced 3 times, I used Nisei MK II to end the run.

They scoffed and said, "that was only my first click and I have plenty of credits to get through again." So they ran again, knowing I couldn't stop them...

The look on their face when they accessed a Junebug advanced 3 times, taking 6 net damage with 3 cards in hand was priceless. Nisei MK II is the perfect agenda to help setup traps as I did in the above scenario.


How did Nisei help there? Would the runner not have lost on hitting Junebug on the attempt before you hit them with Nisei? (Not arguing, just making sure I get the strategy).


Sometimes people jack out after passing through easy-to-pass ICE. Or when it's too comfortable. Or when they smell a rat.

He ended the run to make sure that they were convinced.

It's especially more convincing if the runner pulled/has to pull tricks to get in twice. I don't know if there's a big pile of creds and full breakers and you know he could get int safely twice that I'd be convinced as the runner.

But it is certainly a convincing bluff in MOST cases
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Alejandro G.
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(Tuism understands and beat me to it, haha!)


...do you play Jinteki? We're all about mind games. devil

In our local meta I am well known for selling Junebug traps with ease. However this particular runner had been very cautious from the onset of the game.

He could still decide not to access the "Agenda" on his first run, however I ended the run, essentially selling to him that, "Okay... that's an Agenda and he doesn't want me to get to it, I mean... it has to be, he wouldn't waste Nisei on that right?"

His fate was sealed.
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Ah! Interesting! That makes sense.
 
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Steven Tu
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Edge of World is actually difficult to sell sometimes, because you HAVE TO rez ICE in front of it to seem legit, but sometimes you gotta keep that last bit of cred to trip it...

I've had a few times where I accidentally spent the last creds on a TMI to sell the trap...... Then realise I had no more money to trip it Heh. Lessons learnt
 
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Alejandro G.
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I'm still doing some research on how to sell Edge of World in our meta here. I may try and throw it in. I have a feeling it would work better with Replicating Perfection, yes?
 
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Steven Tu
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
I'm still doing some research on how to sell Edge of World in our meta here. I may try and throw it in. I have a feeling it would work better with Replicating Perfection, yes?


Well I still find it sells best in NBN with upgrades. Trash an upgrade to drop in another upgrade = ATTENTION GRAB

HB has ASH so that's also a good upgrade to sell with.

But other than that I guess it's not the easiest sell. Especially on that rezzing last bits of ICE thing
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Ben Asher
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Even when the trap is non-fatal, it can still be useful to force the runner to spend their precious credits a s econd time before finding their way into the face of danger.

I've found that edge of world does very well when it is cozied up with its good pal sansan city grid. This works better in decks that don't also run junebugs, as the general plan is not to advance ANYTHING the turn you install it, and instead score everything at once on the second turn. Once the sansan is revealed, you put enormous pressure on the runner to go and kill it, but that's exceedingly difficult (or at least painful) if there is an edge of world waiting as well. If nothing else, it goes a long way toward preventing sansan from being trashed, and brings you that much closer to a conventional victory.
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Alejandro G.
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Okay maybe that's my issue... I'm trying to sell it in Jinteki, when I should be trying to sell it in another faction like NBN. Ok... that I can see being possible. Thanks for the tip!
 
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I actually really like edge of world (with sansan) in personal evolution. The deck I ran it in also ran lots of drip income and either shadow or pop up to taste as money generation. It was actually pretty effective.
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I was a big fan of Personal Evolution for the longest time. Perhaps try to build one large server with a SanSan, score an agenda or two quickly with it then pop in an Edge of World?

Might give that a try too. Thanks!
 
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Yep exactly. All your agendas become 'sit here for a turn and then advance fully' on sansan except fetal ai, which that archetype generally prefers to keep in hand along with your 87 drawn snares. That is at least until they bite the edge of world and the three damage from pe + fetal would be lethal...then install away!
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...lol, 87 snares. Okay I'm fortunate to already have an NBN deck built so I'll tweak it a bit and try it out. Thanks you two!
 
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Jeremy Larner
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Tuism wrote:
Edge of World is actually difficult to sell sometimes, because you HAVE TO rez ICE in front of it to seem legit, but sometimes you gotta keep that last bit of cred to trip it...


I've found the bluff works well the other way round here.

Several times I've scored a free Astroscript because I didn't rez any of the three pieces of ice in front of them and the runner got cold feet and jacked out before access.
 
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Jadiel wrote:
Tuism wrote:
Edge of World is actually difficult to sell sometimes, because you HAVE TO rez ICE in front of it to seem legit, but sometimes you gotta keep that last bit of cred to trip it...


I've found the bluff works well the other way round here.

Several times I've scored a free Astroscript because I didn't rez any of the three pieces of ice in front of them and the runner got cold feet and jacked out before access.


Yeah totally, no rez all the way through is very scary for runners. But some people have balls and/or are prepared to take a hit, so...

A bluff is only good if you can back it. If you can show teeth you can bluff Having your only Edge dug up from R&D is sometimes good enough hehe
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
I'm still doing some research on how to sell Edge of World in our meta here. I may try and throw it in. I have a feeling it would work better with Replicating Perfection, yes?


As others have said, it works really well outside Jinteki, especially in NBN and Weyland. I actually won a game in my last regional with Edge of World in my NBN deck. Runner hit one in my "agenda fort" early for two, then one late after more ICE had been installed. SanSan is the key . Get to four points with a scored APP and anything installed on a SanSan is one turn away from winning.

Better still, I've sold it in my Weyland fast-advancish deck. A runner with a max hand size of 2 vs Weyland is a very very worried runner indeed. "Just a matter of time, kiddo. We'll find ya."
 
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Alejandro G.
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Yes, yes I'm sold!! Working on the deck as we speak.
 
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John Brattin
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Tuism wrote:
Lawcomic wrote:
xpiredsodapop wrote:
...best Agenda in the game, hands down.
Reminds me of a time, a runner decided to run a server on their first click. They ran through 4 pieces of ICE and prior to accessing the "Agenda" that was advanced 3 times, I used Nisei MK II to end the run.

They scoffed and said, "that was only my first click and I have plenty of credits to get through again." So they ran again, knowing I couldn't stop them...

The look on their face when they accessed a Junebug advanced 3 times, taking 6 net damage with 3 cards in hand was priceless. Nisei MK II is the perfect agenda to help setup traps as I did in the above scenario.


How did Nisei help there? Would the runner not have lost on hitting Junebug on the attempt before you hit them with Nisei? (Not arguing, just making sure I get the strategy).


Sometimes people jack out after passing through easy-to-pass ICE. Or when it's too comfortable. Or when they smell a rat.

He ended the run to make sure that they were convinced.

It's especially more convincing if the runner pulled/has to pull tricks to get in twice. I don't know if there's a big pile of creds and full breakers and you know he could get int safely twice that I'd be convinced as the runner.

But it is certainly a convincing bluff in MOST cases


I'm new to this game, so I'm not confident that I know anything about it.

That being said:

According to the timing diagram, it looks like there's an opportunity to play abilities after the runner decides whether to jack out. So when using Nisei, I'd always wait until the runner was about the check my facedown cards, and ask them if they were going to jack out before activating Nisei. I wouldn't expect this to make them suspicious, because I would ALWAYS do it--why waste Nisei on ending the run if they're just going to jack out anyway?

Am I missing something?
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That was my read as well, John.
 
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