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Subject: Super n00b squad check rss

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Chris :)
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Hi all,
I just started collecting and playing. I have up until this point just played with the mechanics of flight and the basics. Now I am finally attempting to grasp squad building. Check me and tell me where I am making mistakes.

After doing some reading here are my rebels:

#1
Wedge Antilles+Proton Torpedoes+Swarm+R2F2
Dutch Vander+Ion Cannon+R2D2
Red Squad Pilot+Proton Torpedoes+R5K6

Basically a tight formation to deliver damage and use the ion cannon for support. Might get picked apart easy due to having to stick with the Y-Wing? Are the PTs necessary or should I spend those points other ways?

#2
This is something based on my reading.

Luke Skywalker
Garven Dreis
Rookie
Rookie

I am not sure of the EPS/droid support I should use. It gives me 4 extra points. I could put something on Luke or PT on any.

Imperial

I feel like I understand how to use the imps a little better. Seems easier for me just to throw TIEs at a problem. I also get the caveat that maneuvering a shitload of TIEs is hard but it still seems fairly obvious to overwhelm targets.

#1
Howlrunner+Swarm Tactics (since it seems the right thing to do)
Night Beast
Dark Curse
Black Squadron Pilot (x2)
Alpha Squad Interceptor+Daredevil OR Tempest Squad ADV

I like the Alpha for harrying and to draw apart formations and maybe do some turnaround attacks with Daredevil. It seems a bit frivolous though with a pilot skill of 1. The Tempest Squad seems like a better choice to pair with Howlrunner's swarm to do and soak a little damage.

Anyway, give me a little feedback. This game is a bit more complex than old school Battletech!
 
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Jeff Wilder

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I'll preface this by saying two things:

(1) I'm still new to the game, too. Consider my suggestions with that in mind. Always.

(2) I still build and fly squads for silly reasons, like how they look on the table (four TIE/Adv FTW!), or because they're elite pilots I've never heard of and their ship-types let me name my squadron stuff like "Yakkity YAX (Don't Shoot Back)." My point is that when you post builds, if any considerations like that go into it for you, mention that ... because (quite often, for me so far) sometimes "fun" and "as efficient as possible" are at cross-purposes.

triplenine wrote:
Wedge Antilles+Proton Torpedoes+Swarm+R2F2

You're working against yourself, here, with R2-F2. Wedge is an offensive god, and the very last thing you want to be doing with him is spending an action to get +1 Agility. Nothing wrong with Proton Torps or Swarm Tactics, generally speaking.

Quote:
Dutch Vander+Ion Cannon+R2D2

I've personally found R2-D2 pretty difficult to use. There's nothing wrong with using him, given the Y-wing's damage-sponge tendencies (once somebody starts shooting at him), but I'd find other use for the 4 points. Ion Cannon Turret on Dutch is a winner, though.

Quote:
Red Squad Pilot+Proton Torpedoes+R5K6

Generally speaking, RSP is not worth the points over Rookie Pilot, especially given that you're going to promote him with Swarm Tactics when the shooting starts. Torps aren't bad, but there's no special reason for them, and without them you can fly another X-wing (see below). And IMO, frankly, R5-K6 is garbage. I explained above that I'm kind of a little kid with this game, but even I have never found a use I like for R5-K6.

(God, I am clearly droid-racist!)

There's no real synergy working in this band, but that's okay. There's also very little clashing, so it'll do fine in a casual game, and with luck do okay against a tuned squadron. But let's spruce it up while keeping the same basics:

Wedge (29) + Proton Torps (4) + Swarm Tactics (2)
Dutch (23) + Ion (5)
Rookie Pilot (21)

That leaves 16 points. Two obvious things you could do:

(1) Drop Wedge's Torps and Swarm Tactics, give him something like Determination, and grab another Rookie. You could also (instead of the Determination on Wedge), give Dutch an R2 Astromech, which increases his ability to stay within R 2 of one of the X-wings.

(2) Upgrade the Rookie to another elite X-wing and re-do your upgrades. I have a fun build with Wedge and Luke both with Engine Upgrades and Daredevil, plus Dutch. I think I'm batting about .100 with it right now, but it's really fun.

Quote:
Basically a tight formation to deliver damage and use the ion cannon for support. Might get picked apart easy due to having to stick with the Y-Wing?

There's no real reason for Dutch to be in the thick of things. Ion Turret is 360, and R 2 is really quite a big radius. Unless you're really managing to mess with folks' movement -- remember to ionize stressed targets! -- you may be surprised how often he gets more or less ignored for a long time.

Quote:
Are the PTs necessary or should I spend those points other ways?

Torps are never necessary -- although Horton loves them more than he loves poutine -- but they also don't suck.

Quote:
Luke Skywalker
Garven Dreis
Rookie
Rookie

Again, it's not great, but not terrible. Meaning all the ships are good, and it doesn't work against itself, but it also doesn't have much synergy. Ideally, for example, Garven would have a heavy offensive threat at Pilot 6 or lower to whom he could pass his focus token, but passing it to a Rookie is just fine.

Quote:
Imperial

Honestly, until you get into serious building, there aren't a lot of missteps with TIE swarms. Like piqsid (I think), I like flying all six elite TIEs. I'm terrible at it, but it's fantastic practice for formation maneuvering and for getting familiar with their pilot abilities. I use Elusiveness on Howlrunner and Draw Their Fire on Dark Curse. [Edit: Oops. As pointed out, Dark Curse can't take Elite Pilot upgrades. Draw Their Fire is still not a bad idea. I checked, and actually have it on Mauler Mithel, the only legal choice.]

I also really like Soontir Fel and Turr Phennir (both with Push the Limit and Stealth Device) with three Academy Pilots. (You may be able to tell that I like Boosting all over the place.)

Anyway, the game is a lot of fun. I intended to get VASSAL up and running sometime this week, so if you do the same and want some games against a fellow novice, I'd be up for it.
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Jeff Dunford
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Good advice in the post above. A couple comments though:

Unfortunately, you can't put Draw Their Fire on Dark Curse (no Elite Talent slot; use it on a Black Squadron Pilot instead).

R2-D2 doesn't work well on Y-wings because they don't have many green maneuvers. But he's great on an X-wing you'd like to keep alive (like Wedge), especially since his ability doesn't cost an action (like it does for R2-F2).

R5-K6 isn't terrible on Dutch, so if you want to try it out, he's the pilot to pair it with. But I only do that if I don't have anywhere else to spend 2 points.

In other words, a "better" 3-ship squad with Wedge might look like this, just by moving around the droids:

Wedge + R2-D2
Dutch + Ion Cannon + R5-K6
Biggs + R2-F2

Then you can add Torpedoes or other upgrades (elite talent on Wedge? Stealth device on Biggs?) as you see fit. Drop R5-K6 if you can spend the points better elsewhere.
 
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triplenine wrote:

#1
Wedge Antilles+Proton Torpedoes+Swarm+R2F2
Dutch Vander+Ion Cannon+R2D2
Red Squad Pilot+Proton Torpedoes+R5K6


well, im alright with R2F2 on wedge actually, especially since you do not have Biggs around, and you have dutch to give wedge targetlock, so offensively you should not be facing too much problems (i do agree with targetlock + focus, but it usually ends up as overkill for me most of the time, so a single targetlock or focus is good enough to get you 2-3 hits most of the time).

As others have mentioned, R2D2 on Ywing isnt a good idea because your only greens are forward 1 & 2 and you would be taking more damage than what you could realistically hope to repair. Red sqd pilot and other supermooks like him are generally a bad idea, unless somehow you manage to get info on your opponents' builds before the game. R5K6 is generally useless on everybody, except Dutch due to his ability *they really should let you be able to use the targetlock in the same attack. at the very least you could use it to super-torp somebody, or if used on a Ywing, super-torp somebody twice*

suggestion would be to try and squeeze out 2 points to upgrade Red sqd into Biggs, then he can keep both dutch and wedge alive for longer. I say you butcher R5K6 for the spare 2 pts, then rearrange your stuff a little (ie. R2D2 on wedge, R2F2 on biggs)


Quote:
#2
This is something based on my reading.

Luke Skywalker
Garven Dreis
Rookie
Rookie


Garven works best if he has the highest skill point in the group. failing that, you would want to explore using swarm tactics to get him to shoot first. then for the remaining 2 points, maybe change 1 rookie Xwing into a Gold Ywing + ion cannons? Alternatively, Luke skywalker costs the exact same points as Dutch + ion cannons *whistles*


Quote:
#1
Howlrunner+Swarm Tactics (since it seems the right thing to do)
Night Beast
Dark Curse
Black Squadron Pilot (x2)
Alpha Squad Interceptor+Daredevil OR Tempest Squad ADV


tempest would not be soaking any damage for howlrunner, all the attacks would likely be aimed at her straightaway. Also, you really need to have confidence with your flying when mixing the TIE adv into your Howlrunner squads, because the TIE adv doesnt have a hard turn 1 or reverse 3, but has a soft turn 1 in exchange, meaning your formation flying would be affected quite a lot, both good and bad.

I find TIEin with low pilot skill pointage a waste of their capability, since it makes it a lot harder to accurately guage your boosts and barrel rolls, and as they are as fragile as regular TIEs, there is a high chance they would explode before doing any damage as well. Fel's Wrath solves one part of this problem for quite a reasonably low amount of points, so maybe you could consider him and get some extra points to spend on upgrades (eg. stealth device on Darkcurse)

Again, high level mooks like empty black sqd TIE is generally a waste of points, so maybe get yourself a backstabber + academy, or maybe even a tempest + missile of your choice to mix things up a bit? heck, if you could butcher another ship, you could even consider an empty bounty hunter firespray
 
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Chris :)
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Thanks for all of the good notes. I am going to retool and give it a try tonight. Also, I am going to check out VASSAL. It seems kind of cool. I will get back to you on that.
 
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Robert M.
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triplenine wrote:
#1
Wedge Antilles+Proton Torpedoes+Swarm+R2F2
Dutch Vander+Ion Cannon+R2D2
Red Squad Pilot+Proton Torpedoes+R5K6

There are some general guidelines that are relevant here (all IMO, of course):
1) Adding ships is generally better than adding upgrades.
2) Droids sometimes fail to earn back their points.
3) Torpedoes often fail to earn back their points.
4) Wedge will be a priority target for your opponent.

With all of that said, I don't particularly dislike this list. There is some nice synergy between Dutch and R2-F2; I assume the idea is that Wedge will spend his action on R2-F2, and will get a Target Lock from Dutch.

The biggest problems are the droids on Dutch and Red, the proton torpedo on Red, and the points spent on Red instead of a Rookie. R5-K6 is unlikely to trigger, although it can make a difference if it does; the reason most people run it on Dutch is that if it triggers on Dutch it makes a big difference.

Meanwhile (and unlike many posters), I'm actually down on R2-D2 in general: smart opponents concentrate fire on one ship at a time, particularly early in the game, and R2-D2 doesn't work well against concentrated fire. (He only restores one shield, once per turn, and if there are four TIE fighters firing at a Y-wing it's going to take much more than 1 damage.) Where R2-D2 sometimes shines is in the late game, where there are hopefully fewer opponents shooting at you--but I find that getting to the late game with R2-D2 intact is tough.

The main problem with Torpedoes is that (like many one-shot secondary weapons) they're unlikely to hit targets with Agility 3. They're more useful in Wave 2 than they were in Wave 1, since the Large ships are fairy juicy torpedo targets, but I still only like them on Wedge, Horton, and possibly Krassis Trelix. If it's the last 4 points in your list, and you can't think of anything better to do, go ahead--but there's almost always something better to do with 4 points.

Finally, the problem with Wedge is that he's very dangerous to your opponent, and he's a fairly expensive upgrade from a Rookie Pilot, and he's no more durable than a Rookie Pilot. Your opponent is likely to make killing Wedge a priority, and may be able to do so. You've done something cool here--with 3 Agility and a reliable Target Lock, Wedge is actually fairly mean, and I would love to see it in play. But if it doesn't work, Biggs would be a nice thing to see.

triplenine wrote:

Luke Skywalker
Garven Dreis
Rookie
Rookie

I've played this list, and like it a lot. Luke doesn't need upgrades, but sometimes he likes them; personally I'm a fan of Push the Limit and an R2 Astromech. Another good option includes Swarm Tactics on Luke (which won't let your Rookies or Garven get ahead of PS 9 pilots, but does give you an advantage over some nasties on both sides).

triplenine wrote:
Howlrunner+Swarm Tactics (since it seems the right thing to do)
Night Beast
Dark Curse
Black Squadron Pilot (x2)
Alpha Squad Interceptor+Daredevil OR Tempest Squad ADV

As others have said, "naked" BSPs don't do much; I also don't like the generic TIE Advanced very well in any role except missile carriers (and they're often not very good there). Also, Alpha Squadron can't take Daredevil.

And, like Wedge in Rebel lists, Howlrunner is likely to be a priority target for your opponent--and, unlike Wedge, she's fairly likely to die from just one or two successful attacks. So protecting her should be a priority, and Wave 2 has lots of goodies that help you accomplish that.

Things I like to do with Black Squadron Pilots include giving them Veteran Instincts, Swarm Tactics, or (especially) Draw Their Fire. Howlrunner with a Stealth Device and a wingman with Draw Their Fire has some really nice survivability, so I would start there and keep thinking.

Also, I like to run Interceptors in pairs--it gives each one some fire support if they break away from the rest of the group (which can happen, if you like to boost and/or make use of the Interceptor's dial), and it also means you still get to make use of a 3 Attack ship if your opponent decides that killing Interceptors is how he or she wants to focus their early attacks.
 
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