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Subject: What's with the prices - Discussing out of print games that aren't really out of print rss

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Thomas
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I see a lot of people trying to capitalize on games being in between print runs and claiming they are "out of print" ie: Clash of Cultures, Yggdrasil, Alien Frontiers etc.

I understand we live in a captitalistic society but are board gamers that naive or impatient that they will fall prey to these outrageous prices? Are you really that impatient? It's one thing if a game is truly out of print and the second hand market is determined by supply and demand but not on a game that is less than a year old.
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Stephen Keller
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Re: What's with the scalpers
Ha! Out of Print is a red flag to board game enthusiasts to buy as quick as possible in case it's gone forever. Especially if it's new. Can't chance it not being reprinted immediately. Never mind that if it doesn't get reprinted it probably means it wasn't that good to begin with.
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Thomas
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Re: What's with the scalpers
Synnical77 wrote:
Ha! Out of Print is a red flag to board game enthusiasts to buy as quick as possible in case it's gone forever. Especially if it's new. Can't chance it not being reprinted immediately. Never mind that if it doesn't get reprinted it probably means it wasn't that good to begin with.


Not necessarily, some manufactures do small print runs and if they sell out fast that's a clear indication the game is popular. Right now a bunch of Z-man games are in between print runs but that doesn't deem them "out of print". Even Rprod has acknowledged the elusive Ghost Stories: White Moon will be reprinted later this year
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Re: What's with the scalpers
And so what? if someone decides that game X from 2011 is actually worth $100 to them, how is that a problem for you or me?
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Thomas
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
JasonJ0 wrote:
And so what? if someone decides that game X from 2011 is actually worth $100 to them, how is that a problem for you or me?


I never said its a problem but posed a question for an intellectual discussion.
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Stephen Keller
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Right now a bunch of Z-man games are in between print runs but that doesn't deem them "out of print".


Actually, that is what out of print designates. There's no more copies sitting in Z-Man's storage and basically whatever is floating out there in the world is all that's left. There's no easy immediate gratification of purchasing until Z-Man reprints. Some may luck out and find the odd copy in different stores (either local or in other countries) but as far as Z-Man is concerned they're out of 'em.

This drives the enthusiast absolutely batty as they want their coveted thing NOW!!
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Michael Callahan
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Re: What's with the scalpers
Yeah I remember when the first printing of dominant species was running out,.. The same site that was selling it for $50 the day before, sold their remaining copies for $120,..... Then rolled the second printing out for $50 again a few months later.
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Thomas
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
Synnical77 wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Right now a bunch of Z-man games are in between print runs but that doesn't deem them "out of print".


Actually, that is what out of print designates. There's no more copies sitting in Z-Man's storage and basically whatever is floating out there in the world is all that's left. There's no easy immediate gratification of purchasing until Z-Man reprints. Some may luck out and find the odd copy in different stores (either local or in other countries) but as far as Z-Man is concerned they're out of 'em.

This drives the enthusiast absolutely batty as they want their coveted thing NOW!!


But it's not truley out of print, it hasn't been deemed "discontinued". Take Alien Frontiers, they have a kickstarter going right now and you can get the game for $50, yet people are trying to get $140+ on eBay. I think it's ludicrous. I mean more power to the seller if they can get that but we the consumer should not support those kind of inflations and do more research or just be patient. There are pleanty of great gsmes to play in the mean time.
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
I never said its a problem but posed a question for an intellectual discussion.

Pretty slim pickin's for an intellectual discussion. You mentioned the law of supply and demand in your first post; short supply, prices rise. If you've got some intellectual insights, don't keep us in suspense.
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Stephen Keller
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
We're clearly just debating semantics but I'm tellin' you that 'out of print' is the moniker given to games that the publisher no longer has stock of. For example, Galaxy Trucker has been out of print numerous times over the last couple of years. It doesn't mean that they had no plans of ever printing again - it's just that Galaxy Trucker was mostly out of stock at a lot of store and they wouldn't be getting restocks until the publisher decided to reprint it. Sometimes they know when that will be. Sometimes it's put off for seemingly forever (Goa had this fate for a long time).

To your topic, this is why scalpers exist and can thrive. The people buying these things want their item now. Even more-so when they learn that there's limited stock. The less there are the more valuable. Don't try to question logic in this case. It falls straight into the addiction discussion. "Me want now - Take my Money!"
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Thomas
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
Sphere wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
I never said its a problem but posed a question for an intellectual discussion.

Pretty slim pickin's for an intellectual discussion. You mentioned the law of supply and demand in your first post; short supply, prices rise. If you've got some intellectual insights, don't keep us in suspense.


Well I would assume the people who are paying the prices my visit these forums, does nobody do any research? Are gamers that impulsive and impatient they can't wait a month or two for a game to be reprinted?
 
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Thomas
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
Synnical77 wrote:
We're clearly just debating semantics but I'm tellin' you that 'out of print' is the moniker given to games that the publisher no longer has stock of. For example, Galaxy Trucker has been out of print numerous times over the last couple of years. It doesn't mean that they had no plans of ever printing again - it's just that Galaxy Trucker was mostly out of stock at a lot of store and they wouldn't be getting restocks until the publisher decided to reprint it. Sometimes they know when that will be. Sometimes it's put off for seemingly forever (Goa had this fate for a long time).

To your topic, this is why scalpers exist and can thrive. The people buying these things want their item now. Even more-so when they learn that there's limited stock. The less there are the more valuable. Don't try to question logic in this case. It falls straight into the addiction discussion. "Me want now - Take my Money!"


I see your point, I can easily find myself falling prey to that logic and have to fight the collector in me and just wait it out. Thank god I didn't pay $100+ for White moon when i almost did because not long after I read in these boards they are printing more later this year.
 
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Stephen Keller
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Are gamers that impulsive and impatient they can't wait a month or two for a game to be reprinted?


Yes. I say it jokingly but you must be new here.
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Sphere wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
I never said its a problem but posed a question for an intellectual discussion.

Pretty slim pickin's for an intellectual discussion. You mentioned the law of supply and demand in your first post; short supply, prices rise. If you've got some intellectual insights, don't keep us in suspense.


Well I would assume the people who are paying the prices my visit these forums, does nobody do any research? Are gamers that impulsive and impatient they can't wait a month or two for a game to be reprinted?


Insinuating that people must be impatient, impulsive, or naive in order to pay more than market value for a product is also not a great way to start an intellectual discussion since it suggests you already have formed your opinion and that it is a negative one of the people you are talking about.

That said, what I would say is that some people are impatient or impulsive, they like to have new things when they are new, and that is just fine if they have the money to back it up. I highly doubt it's naivety though. Some people's game groups only like to play hot off the press games. They play them out right away and never return to them so if you don't get in on it now you might not get to play it much.

Also print runs can sometimes take a really long time to happen, even if the publisher says otherwise. Occasionally they fall through completely and never get printed again. There is no guarantee that a reprinting will happen soon or at all.

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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
Sphere wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
I never said its a problem but posed a question for an intellectual discussion.

Pretty slim pickin's for an intellectual discussion. You mentioned the law of supply and demand in your first post; short supply, prices rise. If you've got some intellectual insights, don't keep us in suspense.


Seems as good a topic of conversation as any
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
Seller sets a price. Buyer decides if they are willing to exchange their money for the game. Seems pretty easy.
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Thomas
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
Synnical77 wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Are gamers that impulsive and impatient they can't wait a month or two for a game to be reprinted?


Yes. I say it jokingly but you must be new here.


Nope. Haha I mean I sold my copy of Escape: The Curse of the Temple – Illusions expansion a little over a month ago for like $50 and it is hitting retailers as we speak for around $25. I guess I am a hypocrite for selling at that price but I really didn't want to let to it go and i needed the money so I put a stupid price on it just to see.
 
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Rick Rodrick
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
One of the great things about BGG is that it makes the market much more transparent than it would otherwise be. No reason to "overpay" because you don't have enough information. The only reason to "overpay" is you want it now and you have the money.

Grail games are a bit different, I think. Nevertheless you can't "overpay" for a game that is scarce in the market. You can pay more than someone else thinks you should but you can't "overpay."

I've overpaid, I've gotten "deals" and as long as I end up with a value that satisfies me. No harm, no problem.
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
bortmonkey wrote:
Seems as good a topic of conversation as any

If you had said no worse than most I'd agree.
 
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
Sphere wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
I never said its a problem but posed a question for an intellectual discussion.

Pretty slim pickin's for an intellectual discussion. You mentioned the law of supply and demand in your first post; short supply, prices rise. If you've got some intellectual insights, don't keep us in suspense.


Yes, the question was answered in the original post: supply and demand capitalism.

The seller has decided what the value of the game is to him. If the seller doesn't need to sell the game ASAP then there is no pressure to lower the price. One day, someone willing to pay the price will come along. Or else factors in the seller's life will alter how he values the game--say if he finds himself in imminent need of money or space, or if a reprinting increases supply at a point in time where he needs the money from a sale. If the game gets reprinted and the seller doesn't NEED to sell, he can just wait for the new printing to run out and then try to sell again during the next period of low availability.

As far as why buyers would pay the added premium, there are plenty of reasons. Time-sensitive gifts... if you want to give the game as a gift for a birthday or Christmas, you're going to pay what it costs to make that happen. Or maybe you've lost the last ten auctions for a particular game and you just want to get it already and not have to keep looking for it. Or maybe you value money differently than someone else--if you have more of it, then spending a little more to get what you want will hurt you less than it would someone who can't afford to spend like that.

All of which boils down to supply and demand capitalism.
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Thomas
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
Sphere wrote:
bortmonkey wrote:
Seems as good a topic of conversation as any

If you had said no worse than most I'd agree.


Then why bother to interject? Don't bother with an answer, that was a rhetorical question.
 
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
If someone wants to pay me a bunch of money for a game I'm not attached to, I'm happy to take the money.

For example, when I found out AEG was reprinting Trains, I put my Ozaku edition up for sale for whatever the going rate was. Someone bought it, even acknowledging that they knew the AEG version was coming but didn't want to wait that long.

So, even though I want Trains and will re-buy later when the AEG version comes out, I was happy to accept a bunch of money for the wait, and someone else was happy to fork over the cash to play it now. Everyone wins.
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
Scalping only occurs with tickets to live events as the arbitrage related to that kind of thing has unique characteristics.

Reselling an item for a high price is just a market economy functioning. It's so straightforward, not to mention the basis of our entire economy, that one does wonder what conversation there is to be had.

Typically this is only brought up when someone wants to take a passive aggressive swipe and a specific, unfavorable transaction ( eg game X is priced too high) .... Heck I don't even know why I'm posting as this thread has so little opportunity to be interesting.

I guess the academic point on scalping was interesting to me.

In closing, a price is only too high when you can't find someone to pay it.
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Then why bother to interject? Don't bother with an answer, that was a rhetorical question.

Don't bother to read the following; it's a rhetorical answer. Your response to the other guy that you posed the question in order to stimulate an intellectual discussion tickled me. I wanted to see if you could deliver the goods.
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Re: What's with the scalpers - Discussing out of print games
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
i needed the money so I put a stupid price on it just to see.


...some people need the money ... and others just want to see if they can get their price ... sounds like you've figured out your own answer.

... and no, not all gamers will pay high prices for an OOP game ... all it takes it one or two to set the price , and they have their own reasons. So what?
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