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Subject: Not Receiving Game From Geeklist Auction rss

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Christopher Watkins
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Hi All,

Must have the worst luck in the world. Recently had a problem receiving money off a geeklist auction, now I can't get an item I purchased. Was a huge expense too for me at least. $120 for Antiquity. Sent payment one day after auction closed. This was back around March 25th.

So what are my options now. Last correspondence was he couldn't find a box to fit it and then he had just forgotten about it. I file a complaint over pay pal or what? I've geek mailed Octavian, and am currently waiting for a response from him.

Sadly, this is probably the last time I geekbay something. Other folks with horror stories from geekbay losing a $100 dollars? Misery loves company.
 
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Barry
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That sucks. If he's logged on since your last correspondence with him and nothing's happened yet, I would try to get the money back. Geeks holding auctions, especially if they're whining they need the money, should send their games in a reasonable amount of time. 3 weeks is not reasonable.

edit: After checking the auction, if that guy's sob story is true, I would give him the benefit of the doubt and give him a little more time. But still..... that's a long time to not send the game.

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If you aren't satisfied and paid via PayPal, then wield the lever of PayPal to "assist" this seller to uphold their part of the transaction.

 
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Not sure if you need to go to those lengths. If you pay via PayPal, then you always have an out.

SixtyWATZ wrote:


Sadly, this is probably the last time I geekbay something. Other folks with horror stories from geekbay losing a $100 dollars? Misery loves company.
 
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Lance
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Shoot the guy a geekmail and tell them you need to see confirmation of the game heading your way (via a tracking code) fairly soon or you will need to dispute the transaction through paypal, and then follow through with this action if need be,

You might not get your game, but you will at least get your money back.
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EGG Head
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and let
Matthew M
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know if there continues to be an issue
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fightcitymayor
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UndeadViking wrote:
Shoot the guy
I can't believe Lance is resorting to such violence!
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Chad Brozik
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You have 45 days to file a paypal complaint. Based on the transaction date, you have a bit of time left, but I wouldn't wait too long.
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Thomas
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Does this happen often? Was the seller selling other items, perhaps message a few other buyers and see if they received their products. I would be livid.
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Russ Spears
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fightcitymayor wrote:
UndeadViking wrote:
Shoot the guy
I can't believe Lance is resorting to such violence!

I just learned I read the first 3 words of a post when scrolling.
 
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Jeff Michaud
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lorna wrote:
and let
Matthew M
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know if there continues to be an issue

actuall better to point folks to Matt's wiki page...

Marketplace-Trade Dispute Resolution
 
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Christopher Watkins
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darthhugo wrote:
Not sure if you need to go to those lengths. If you pay via PayPal, then you always have an out.

SixtyWATZ wrote:


Sadly, this is probably the last time I geekbay something. Other folks with horror stories from geekbay losing a $100 dollars? Misery loves company.


It's just not worth my time man. I "waste" enough time being a bgg addict so to take this on is just too much. I was willing to give the marketplace a chance and yeah there has been some pluses, but now being a seller and a buyer it's just a lot of work to follow up with folks. Vs. an online retailer or FLGS where I never have problems.

I sold 12 items in my last auction and no one gave me feedback, so I also think the feedback system is a little meh, and inconsistent so even checking everyone out isn't reliable.

Thanks for all the help folks. Appreciate it. Sent him an e-mail wishing we could work out a timeline, but that if I didn't hear back by tomorrow I'd just paypal complaint the whole thing.


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Darth seems to think it's just a-b-c with resolution process, but I'm sure I won't see that money for 2-3 months unless you can cite an example of where someone was immediately reimbursed.

Too much bureaucracy not enough game in my hands. I'll sell to local people or on Craigslist now, or a math trade. I found math trades to be way more reliable.
 
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I don't know the history of your seller, but I know when I deal with big ticket items, I will make sure he has a lot of trades under his belt, and has some years and history at BGG. It's too easy for scammers to use sought out games like Antiquity to gain a quick buck.
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Christopher Watkins
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MWChapel wrote:
I don't know the history of your seller, but I know when I deal with big ticket items, I will make sure he has a lot of trades under his belt, and has some years and history at BGG. It's too easy for scammers to use sought out games like Antiquity to gain a quick buck.


How many scammers are there on bgg?
 
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Barry
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SixtyWATZ wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
I don't know the history of your seller, but I know when I deal with big ticket items, I will make sure he has a lot of trades under his belt, and has some years and history at BGG. It's too easy for scammers to use sought out games like Antiquity to gain a quick buck.


How many scammers are there on bgg?
Just 1.

Doug Palmer
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Jonathan A.
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SixtyWATZ wrote:
How many scammers are there on bgg?

Unfortunately too many as I was screwed on this disaster Auction - http://thegaminggang.com/2011/11/the-gaming-gangsunshine-acr... and am the topic of discussion on this blog - http://thegaminggang.com/2012/06/why-im-finished-with-boardg...

I'm STILL out about $100 and at this point have zero hope of ever getting that money back. Can't believe he runs a "popular" board gaming site also.
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Jonathan A.
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SJBenoist wrote:
crusader4x wrote:
SixtyWATZ wrote:
How many scammers are there on bgg?

Unfortunately too many as I was screwed on this disaster Auction - http://thegaminggang.com/2011/11/the-gaming-gangsunshine-acr... and am the topic of discussion on this blog - http://thegaminggang.com/2012/06/why-im-finished-with-boardg...

I'm STILL out about $100 and at this point have zero hope of ever getting that money back. Can't believe he runs a "popular" board gaming site also.


I don't consider that a "scam", but I'd be very unhappy about how that played-out in your position as well.

Paypal didn't help?


Paypal couldn't help because he kept telling me he was 'working' on it. Followed by silence and then another minor update. I'm a nice guy and his supposed 'fundraiser' was for an organization close to my heart as both of my brothers are house parents at Sunshine Acres and have been for years. So....I kept trusting. Before long too much time passed and Paypal wouldn't refund. He eventually sent my Space Hulk minis back, reeking of smoke and obviously untouched although he claimed to have primed them then stripped the primer. I also got $30 something refund but that's it, end of story, and I'm out $100. I suppose I can inquire if Sunshine Acres ever received any of the funds he raised for them.
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Anthony Gambatese
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Guess I have been lucky ...had lots of auctions and lots of purchases and everything has worked out great ... accept maybe one.

and also had great secret santa exchange results!!

BGG members rock ... you just gotta watch the newbees or the ones that only log on to sell stuff.


as for those guys .... yukangry goes out to you...
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Jeff McAleer
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I signed up once again for BGG in order to respond to Jonathan's post. Yes the auction ended up being a disaster on both sides and I learned a solid lesson as to biting off more than I can chew, as well as why I'll never put together an auction again outside of a fifty mile radius of my home; about 97% of the people who took part in the TGG auction were happy with the results, and the games they received, but the other 3% had issues with shipping or receiving packages the post office decided to run through the ringer.

Regardless, I look to run a website which is legitimate and not one which comes across as being more concerned in putting your money in their pocket. That said, no one ever claims my site isn't run by anyone who's less than human and capable of making mistakes. The last time I'd heard from Jon he'd emailed asking for his Space Hulk minis back and some money returned for his investment to get them painted; Jon wanted them painted to the specifics of GW but didn't provide the paints or codex needed to provide that sort of paint job while he emailed me he'd sent those materials - although they never showed up. I ended up picking up the paints and materials so the color schemes would be exact.

In the end the minis didn't get painted because they were well beyond the scope of my comfort level because as opposed to providing a game table ready set of minis Jon led me to feel he expected paint jobs worthy of inclusion in White Dwarf magazine and I was in the midst of painting another winner's Paranoia minis. I certainly didn't want to ruin someone's figures from a game which demands top dollar on the secondary market at the time. Jon's emails were less and less friendly - yes I archive all emails sent to TGG - and it got to the point where just bailing on the project made much more sense with the Space Hulk minis because I knew whatever got sent wouldn't be up to snuff.

Jonathon received back exactly what he requested, minus what I purchased to paint his figures to his expectations. It's not as if the GW paints and such were cheap... That said, I just sent along a PayPal payment of $95.00 to Jon - more than a lot of people could expect from game companies they're dissatisfied with - because The Gaming Gang isn't some BS website or looking to rip someone off. The fact is I shouldn't have allowed extra winners into the painting aspect of the auction and the fault lies completely with myself.

Once again, the fault lies entirely with me and I take the heat when I screw up; it wasn't Jon's fault as I'm sure he was pumped to start busting out Space Hulk with his friends with some nicely painted minis.

On a final note, I welcome Jon or anyone else to bust my chops on the Sunshine Acres auction in regards to the orphanage receiving the funds raised; sorry TGG isn't the kind of website which crows about donating anything to anyone. Yeah, it's a real accomplishment to donate things you received at absolutely cost out of your pocket... What we do behind the scenes with kids hospitals, the VA or anything else is completely our business. Personally, I give less than a rat's ass what anyone associated with BGG, or their visitors, think of me or my website; the drum we march to at TGG is a lot different than that of BGG but I surely don't want anyone to think we're crooks...

Jeff McAleer
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Jonathan A.
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TGGJeff wrote:
I signed up once again for BGG in order to respond to Jonathan's post. Yes the auction ended up being a disaster on both sides and I learned a solid lesson as to biting off more than I can chew, as well as why I'll never put together an auction again outside of a fifty mile radius of my home; about 97% of the people who took part in the TGG auction were happy with the results, and the games they received, but the other 3% had issues with shipping or receiving packages the post office decided to run through the ringer.

Regardless, I look to run a website which is legitimate and not one which comes across as being more concerned in putting your money in their pocket. That said, no one ever claims my site isn't run by anyone who's less than human and capable of making mistakes. The last time I'd heard from Jon he'd emailed asking for his Space Hulk minis back and some money returned for his investment to get them painted; Jon wanted them painted to the specifics of GW but didn't provide the paints or codex needed to provide that sort of paint job while he emailed me he'd sent those materials - although they never showed up. I ended up picking up the paints and materials so the color schemes would be exact.

In the end the minis didn't get painted because they were well beyond the scope of my comfort level because as opposed to providing a game table ready set of minis Jon led me to feel he expected paint jobs worthy of inclusion in White Dwarf magazine and I was in the midst of painting another winner's Paranoia minis. I certainly didn't want to ruin someone's figures from a game which demands top dollar on the secondary market at the time. Jon's emails were less and less friendly - yes I archive all emails sent to TGG - and it got to the point where just bailing on the project made much more sense with the Space Hulk minis because I knew whatever got sent wouldn't be up to snuff.

Jonathon received back exactly what he requested, minus what I purchased to paint his figures to his expectations. It's not as if the GW paints and such were cheap... That said, I just sent along a PayPal payment of $95.00 to Jon - more than a lot of people could expect from game companies they're dissatisfied with - because The Gaming Gang isn't some BS website or looking to rip someone off. The fact is I shouldn't have allowed extra winners into the painting aspect of the auction and the fault lies completely with myself.

Once again, the fault lies entirely with me and I take the heat when I screw up; it wasn't Jon's fault as I'm sure he was pumped to start busting out Space Hulk with his friends with some nicely painted minis.

On a final note, I welcome Jon or anyone else to bust my chops on the Sunshine Acres auction in regards to the orphanage receiving the funds raised; sorry TGG isn't the kind of website which crows about donating anything to anyone. Yeah, it's a real accomplishment to donate things you received at absolutely cost out of your pocket... What we do behind the scenes with kids hospitals, the VA or anything else is completely our business. Personally, I give less than a rat's ass what anyone associated with BGG, or their visitors, think of me or my website; the drum we march to at TGG is a lot different than that of BGG but I surely don't want anyone to think we're crooks...

Jeff McAleer


Just wanted to confirm that I have indeed received a refund and as far as I'm concerned, this issue is settled for me. Thanks Jeff.

Now, hopefully the OP will have a similar outcome.
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Jeff McAleer
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Just trying to what's right Jon. A lot of crazy things were going on behind the scenes at the site until Elliott got ousted, which won't be discussed, but with the new structure at TGG I wanted to make sure this got taken care of as soon as I got wind of your continued dissatisfaction; it's a lot easier to make things right when there's only one hand on the tiller.

To my knowledge you were the only person involved in the 2011 auction who either wasn't happy with the outcome or in my making amends for the two or three packages which were lost in the mail. At the point all of this went down I found myself in a bind as far as time I could devote to painting the figures as well as being involved in a job which didn't pay very well while also keeping me away from home for long stretches of time.

My approach has always been to be as transparent as I can be with how The Gaming Gang operates without resorting to a "Woe is me" let's let people fund the website through Kickstarter approach or asking for donations through PayPal. To say the least this makes operating the site a month by month proposition and there were a lot of times in 2012 the choice came down to eating raman or keeping the site afloat for another month. Still not an excuse for making you feel as if you were cheated though.

I'm not writing this to garner good will from the BGG community - I already pointed out I'm not overly concerned with BGG - but rather to publically apologize and make things a little bit right with you Jon.
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Steve Armitstead
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I am glad you guys have sorted this out amicably

However, the thread does raise questions over the robustness and consumer protection of Geek Auctions, Trades and Marketplace that I think should be addressed by BGG. I think the opportunity to sell games without having to pay Ebay's steep fees (Buy It Now fees for 30 days plus final price fees) is a great boon to gamers looking to buy or sell games that are OOP.

Certainly PayPal should work better to protect, but that is out of BGG's hands.
I looked at the MT Dispute Resolution (http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Marketplace-Trade_Dispute...) and was not encouraged by Step 4 :
"Step 4 - Recognize that you may not get your due. Though admins can sometimes help resolve situations through intervention, if someone is completely unwilling to cooperate there is little that can be done to force compliance.", although it does go on to say: " Admins can, however, lock users out of accessing features like the trade manager and the marketplace so if it is determined that someone has abused the system they can be prevented from doing any more business on BGG until they resolve their issues." That doesn't protect BGG members from scammers or people signing up to sell something and disappear. I don't know what the issue is with the Feedback system mentioned above, but that compounds the problem.

It maybe unfair to raise all these problems and expect Admin to find resolution; as a community it is in our interest to make these systems work. It is an issue for BGG, but members and Admin together. The way forward I see is put our heads together and come up with some workable ideas to put to Admin to try.

Money (time and effort) where mouth is: I will give it some attention and post any ideas I have. Anyone else interested in doing so? I think the system is worth keeping and improving.
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reaching out from the in-between spaces...
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The easiest solution to implement is to look up the profile of whomever you are buying from. Good feedback ratings and robust bgg activity bodes well for things to go smoothly. I wouldn't purchase anything from new accounts. Also, using PayPal helps. You will have a 45 day window to get a refund. I really don't think one can do anymore than this.

Jorune
 
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Edward Uhler
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And we've bought over 250 games from BGG auctions and have never had a bad deal. I think the issues here, while legit, are the extreme exception and very much NOT the rule.
 
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Futza wrote:
Geeks holding auctions, especially if they're whining they need the money...

Futza wrote:
...if that guy's sob story is true...


May you never have to deal with hardship. Especially one that requires you to turn to others for support.
 
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