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Subject: Is there a list of Cards of Doom that should be removed? rss

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Scott O'Dell
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IS there a couple of cards that people generally remove from this game?

EVery time we have played the winner had 1 card that everyone (including the winner) thought was over powered comparatively.
 
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Richard Sampson
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I have not encountered such a card; can you give an example? The only cards I have heard of people removing are the mandatory quests and that was to make the game a little friendlier, not because they were broken.
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My group don't, I have not found any card to be considered overpowered. Plus they are all situational, the Lieutenant is pretty awesome if you get him early, but that makes you a target, and getting the quest late is pretty useless.

Some people remove the mandatory quests, but that is group dynamic more than anything else.

Of the quests, I'd say that my favourite is the Magister's Orb, but it certainly isn't overpowered or in need of removal.
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Noble Knave
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I think the Yawning Portal (Building: Take 2 Adventurers of your choice, owner takes 1 Adventurer of his choice) is slightly overpowered, I heard a rumor that the designers intentionally made it that way. To be balanced it would need to be an 8 cost, if not a 6.

I can't think of any Intrigue or Quests that are super OP.
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thenobleknave wrote:
I think the Yawning Portal (Building: Take 2 Adventurers of your choice, owner takes 1 Adventurer of his choice) is slightly overpowered, I heard a rumor that the designers intentionally made it that way. To be balanced it would need to be an 8 cost, if not a 6.

I can't think of any Intrigue or Quests that are super OP.


Yes, the yawning portal is pretty awesome. It also makes the owner a nice little benefit, and it makes for more competition for the first player marker.

It is a little strange that it is only cost 4, but only the buildings that provide 3 adventurers for free that cost 8.
 
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Noble Knave
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If you consider the baseline that 1 Action = 1 Priest = 1 Wizard = 2 Fighters = 2 Rogues, then the 4 8-cost buildings give you 2 actions' worth (and the owner can get either 1 or 1/2 an action's worth) and the Yawning Portal gives you between 1 and 2 actions' worth (and the owner again gets 1/2 or 1 actions' worth) but with far greater flexibility for both parties.

The relative value of the adventurers changes as the game goes on, and obviously the 8-coster is slightly more efficient than the YP if it exactly matches your needs, but the YP in most situations is far stronger than any single 8-coster.
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Jonathan Kinney
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PimpMario wrote:
IS there a couple of cards that people generally remove from this game?

EVery time we have played the winner had 1 card that everyone (including the winner) thought was over powered comparatively.



I'm well over 100 games of LoW and while there are cards I like (I.e., quests that I will take regardless of whether it matches my Lord requirements or not...mainly because I like what they do), I wouldn't say there's anything that I'd say is overpowered.
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Scott O'Dell
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Thanks for the feedback.

I know Lieutenant is one of them. I have seen it come out early in 2 games and both games that player KILLed everyone else.

In a game like LOD I don't know how you "target the leader" other than giving him mandatory quests and targeting him with card actions.

There is another card I have seen people feel is overpowered.

The reason I am asking is so I can take them out and now have that experience next time we play.

In this game I feel like it is such a game of marginal advantages. I mean that it seems like it is usually a close game where someone wins because they complete one more quest of their type or something like that. The only time I haven't felt that was is when a "card of doom" comes out too early.
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Chris Ferejohn
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I haven't seen someone get the Lieutenant and win ever. I don't remember the exact math but you're basically sacrificing something like 25 points worth of cubes to get it, probably by turn 3 at the earliest, so that's what 6 extra actions? I don't see how it adds up (helps if you get rewarded for military quests).
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Noble Knave
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1 Action = 4 Points if you're playing efficiently (that's the going rate for turning in an action's worth of adventurers). The Lieutenant can be awesome if he gets good placements (despite being last action before Reassignments), if he gets out really early, or if you get bonus points for Warfare. However, he has a very high opportunity cost.

I don't know that I've seen the Lieutenant player win yet, but it's certainly intimidating. Since he needs a little of everything, it's often possible to delay getting the Lieutenant by a turn or two by blocking or Intrigue.
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P.D. Magnus
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thenobleknave wrote:
1 Action = 4 Points if you're playing efficiently (that's the going rate for turning in an action's worth of adventurers).


But taking a quest usually uses an action (or at least half an action) so that exchange rate means that 1 Action is worth 3 Points and change.
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Lars Wagner Hansen
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I've seen the player with the Lieutenant win at least twice.

One game was a 2 player game, where my opponent started taking the quest, and had it fulfilled by turn 2. He won by a landslide.

Another game was a 5 player game, where the player started with the quest, and had it fulfilled during reasignment in turn 2. He also won, but not by a landslide.

But I've also seen players with the Lieutenant loose badly, so it's not overpowered IMO.
 
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Noble Knave
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pmagnus wrote:
thenobleknave wrote:
1 Action = 4 Points if you're playing efficiently (that's the going rate for turning in an action's worth of adventurers).


But taking a quest usually uses an action (or at least half an action) so that exchange rate means that 1 Action is worth 3 Points and change.


True, which you can somewhat offset by either getting a matching type of Quest to get the 4 bonus points or taking bigger quests to reduce the transaction cost of quest acquisition.
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thenobleknave wrote:
pmagnus wrote:
thenobleknave wrote:
1 Action = 4 Points if you're playing efficiently (that's the going rate for turning in an action's worth of adventurers).


But taking a quest usually uses an action (or at least half an action) so that exchange rate means that 1 Action is worth 3 Points and change.


True, which you can somewhat offset by either getting a matching type of Quest to get the 4 bonus points or taking bigger quests to reduce the transaction cost of quest acquisition.


Yup. That's the advantage of getting bigger quests...although if you have the +2 point per quest plot it's really worth it to get the smaller ones.
I once managed to snag about 70 points using the lord's ability + the plot quest(in a 2 player game of course ).

To OP: there really aren't any overpowered buildings/abilities/intrigue. The yawning portal may seem like it, but if you manage to use it more than it's owner, it actually benefits you more.

Edit: The quest that allows you to place on an occupied building is REALLY good, much better than Lieutenant imo.


 
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Scott O'Dell
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thesleeper7 wrote:


Edit: The quest that allows you to place on an occupied building is REALLY good, much better than Lieutenant imo.




That is the other one. Seems broken to me.
 
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Noble Knave
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Magister's Orb is definitely strong, but since you can only use it on places an opponent has visited I don't think it's broken. It means that your final action will likely be worth 1.5 or 2 actions rather than the single action spots that are typically left, but then the owner of the building gets the benefit a second time (unless that owner happens to be you).
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Scott O'Dell
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thenobleknave wrote:
Magister's Orb is definitely strong, but since you can only use it on places an opponent has visited I don't think it's broken. It means that your final action will likely be worth 1.5 or 2 actions rather than the single action spots that are typically left, but then the owner of the building gets the benefit a second time (unless that owner happens to be you).


It lets you build a good building that gets used every time and you get that benefit and then you can use the building yourself too!
 
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Noble Knave
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Which is marginally better than exclusively getting the benefit or using it yourself, but it still takes a placement to do so. Like I said, it's a strong combo, but it's expensive and takes several rounds to earn its cost back. I don't think it's broken, but it definitely one of the strongest Quests in the game. Is it better than any of the 25 point Quests? I don't really think so.
 
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Scott O'Dell
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thenobleknave wrote:
Which is marginally better than exclusively getting the benefit or using it yourself, but it still takes a placement to do so. Like I said, it's a strong combo, but it's expensive and takes several rounds to earn its cost back. I don't think it's broken, but it definitely one of the strongest Quests in the game. Is it better than any of the 25 point Quests? I don't really think so.


Is there a good thread that breaks down points power action and stuff like that?

In this game I always feel like it is never worth it to take a quest that isn't one of your type unless it is a card of doom.
 
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Noble Knave
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Check under the Strategy tab, I think someone put one up shortly after the game was released but I'm too lazy to go dig it up. As I said earlier in this thread, it starts at 1 Action = 4 Gold = 2 Quests = 2 Intrigues = 2 Warriors/Rogues = 1 Cleric/Wizard and then changes as new buildings and quests change supply/demand.

I often take non-matching if it makes a good combo. E.G. I just won a PBF game in part by taking Heal Fallen Grey Hand soldiers (Piety, gives 6 Fighters) to fuel completing extra Warfare quests as the Warfare/Skulduggery lord. I also chained a lot of other quests in to get good combos in the end game.
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Trent Boardgamer
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Certain cards are more powerful than others in particular games, due to timing but it evens out. I've had people that want to remove the lord with points bonuses for buildings built, but in reality I believe it evens out (But sometimes card draws of quest offset this fact).

All in all it's even statistically imo, but some games, due to card timing are not.....But that's what keeps games fun or we would all be playing noughts and crosses.
 
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Tom Steynen
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Mostly because of the Lieutenant quest, we introduced the house rule that you are not allowed the receive plot quests for your starting quests. If you get one at the start of the game you need to turn it back in and draw a new quest.
 
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Laura Gerard
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There are no cards of doom.

Some cards are better than others.

Part of your job when selecting a quest is deciding which quest is the most valuable to you given the situation.

Most, if not all, of the plot quests are much better at the beginning of the game and have a low return on your investment if you complete them late in the game.

Some of the other quests have to be timed just right as well to get maximum benefit.

There are a few quests that I think are almost never worth doing. But at least one of them is one that my husband loves and manages to get a lot of benefit from. It's a plot quest and he is just better at utilizing the benefit than I am.

With regards to intrigue cards, some are better than others. Making a choice to do something that results in drawing an intrigue card is a gamble. If you have a lot of them, you will never get to play them all but have more choice in which ones to play. The most important thing for some of them is playing them at the right time, especially the attack cards and mandatory quests.

When I play with my family, we play a Care Bear Variant that removes most of the attack cards and all the mandatory quests. When I play with gamers, we leave them in. There is nothing wrong with these cards, just a preference for or against a take-that mechanic.

I could talk more about specific cards if anyone would like. I have strong opinions about most all of them.
 
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Laura Gerard
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I was thinking about this some more and we do remove the Builder Lord. Nobody in my family with that lord ever one so we took her out. She is underpowered.
 
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