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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » General

Subject: Another question from a Wings of Glory player rss

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Jeff White
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Still on the fence on this one as, but getting closer to the edge. Answer to this question will go a long way.

When I've played WoG, we usually do three scenarios in a night. A 'mini-campaign' if you will. Basically, survivors of a scenario get a random skill (originally from the book, but now the pilot cards). Survivors of the second scenario get a random skill. Then, the third scenario is the 'finale' as it were with some pilots having more skills than others.

This works, because we also play with the 'ammunition' rule. Basically, every player starts with 8 shots. After your plane is empty, players usually head off the map. They survive the encounter and get a skill. Sure them exiting doesn't help their side win that scenario, but they live to fight another day and have 'learned' from the experience. On the other hand, some pilots will decide to keep their ships in play to screen for others or what not. Anyway, it's a lot of fun.

Does X-wing have anything like this? Anything that would cause the player to fly away (Kinda like Luke told Wedge to in A New Hope)? Or is every battle a last ship flying scenario?

Also, does this game have any small way to give pilots bumps between games, as I mentioned WoG having (the skills)?

This is my biggest concern. Each game is a self contained do or die. Seems like it would get boring fast.

(Then again, my take on preferred gaming experience is why I've always enjoyed Mordheim or Blood Bowl over Warhammer. I like the little stories from linked scenarios/games.)
 
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Garry Rice
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There are a few scenarios included that you can play. I believe one of them involves eventually exiting the map after a set number of turns have elapsed to allow a damaged X-wing to be repaired (rebels are trying to protect said X-wing while the Imperials are trying to destroy everyone)...but not really anything that you can chain together.

Nor is there anything where you can obtain skills, although I suppose you could hold skills back from pilots and allow them to add one after the first battle if they survive (or promote a rookie pilot to the next level without requiring an adjustment to the points)...but I don't know how such a thing would affect the balance of the game.
 
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Jeff Wilder

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I'm pretty sure somebody out there figured out point values for everything (and said they tested very well in building existing ships). That means you could easily figure out: (1) A number of points to award for survival and/or kills and (2) a list of everything that can be upgraded between clashes in your mini-campaign. (E.g., obviously you could upgrade to Proton Torps if you've earned four points (and can carry them), but can you upgrade your ship's Agility or Attack?

Sounds like fun. Lemme see if I can find that link for you ... I think this is it:

http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/86960/ship-stats-vs-points...

BTW, officially in non-missions games, a ship that leaves the playing field is removed from the game (and considered destroyed for victory calculations). Just keep in mind that if you allow ships to leave the playing field, you may want some system -- probably abstract -- for pursuit. I know that if the Falcon leaves the mat with one hull left, I want there to be some chance it doesn't show up again later.
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all 3 scenarios feature some form of escape (1 - escort the transport off the playarea, 2 - stick around for a few turns, then run away, 3 - pretty much a bank heist). the 2 additional scenarios has one extended version of the escort mission, and the other is a take out the VIP sorta thing.

the official scenarios provided are all standalone and rather simple. there's nothing stopping you from making your own though. or you could always use some custom scenarios made by others. the Erasmus campaign made by one BBG user seems closest to what you are looking for.


also, the ferocity of the battles often make it very difficult to escape. have 1 guy on your tail for say 2 turns and you are likely to be dead

EDIT: oh, you meant getting out for some light refreshments, then returning to the battle. so far nope, but custom missions wise the Capital Ship one has something similar. you fly back to the mothership to get repairs.
 
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Bernd Caspers
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When comparing the two games, don´t forget X-Wing is very early in it´s life cycle, there is still a lot to come.
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Xander Fulton
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I think it's fair to say that the game has a lot of flexibility for custom-made scenarios.

As far as the "survivors get 'x' upgrade after surviving" I can see a lot of possibilities. Especially for the rebels - reset the shields between each match? ADD a shield token between each match? Default rules allow one "upgrade" to each ship...maybe add another per match? etc
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Guido Gloor
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You could easily house rule something like that with upgrades (elite pilot ones in particular seem to work well, or ship modifications).

An ammo rule sounds interesting as well, maybe with slightly less thematic justification here though because these ships have just one reactor that powers all of shields, engine and lasers.
 
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we have 3 scenarios in the core rule book, 1 in the falcon expansion, and 1 in the Slave-I, they all come with counters and are very cool to play.

the original demo ate gen con also has the deathstar scenario vs turbo lasers and we have some nice custom missions here at BGG.

this game is evolving into a nice miniature game, not just another boardgame that will get boring fast. thats why people are spending so much money to make large fleets so they com play it and alot of variants for many years.
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Jeff White
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Duraham wrote:

EDIT: oh, you meant getting out for some light refreshments, then returning to the battle. so far nope, but custom missions wise the Capital Ship one has something similar. you fly back to the mothership to get repairs.


No, I actually meant to retreat from the battle/scenario. Again kinda like Wedge did in A New Hope.

Having a reason to leave the battle (out of ammo, plane too damaged, survive for a skill, etc) adds an extra tactical element. As does limited ammo. Do you shoot now just because you're in range, or risk another turn to get in closer?

I want more at stake here for the players rather than just blowing each other up every game.
 
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Guido Gloor
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I guess you're really talking about how many community additions and house rules there are, and how good the community is at churning out new stuff, right?

There's plenty of those in the files section and variants forums on here, with a (not exhaustive) collection in this thread: Collection of user created material for X-Wing Miniatures Game.

Recently, people have started making campaign systems, too: Campaign Rules for X-Wing Version 2.0 and [filepage=89364][/filepage] were posted in the last weeks. Admittedly, they go further than just three games, but I'm sure they could be adapted for mini-campaigns, too.

Personally, I also made a scenario (meanwhile playtested): Three player scenario: The Flying Dutchman - the game lends itself to these very easily, and there's plenty of stuff for crafting in the files section to help with goals and stuff.

Personally, I think that so much flexibility while maintaining great balance between factions because of the points system is one of the major reasons of the huge success of X-Wing.
 
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Charlie Theel
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Jeff, there's nothing built into the system to directly give you what you want. You could certainly accomplish what you want with gaining skills and linking scenarios through house rules, although ammo is kind of a stretch. You'd have to make up some rules or a reason to leave a fight as currently there is none.

X-Wing is typically played more like Warhammer or any other wargame. Some people have created fan content for linked scenarios and the like but there's no current support.

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Michael Hollar

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This may not be an issue for this subject, but it seems that WoG and X-Wing are wired very differently in terms of the number of players. From my experience, WoG works best when each player controls one plane and you have a larger number of players (I played a 10 player game that was a lot of fun). On the other hand, X-Wing is designed for each player to control a small squadron of ships and is ideal for 2-4 players (it is designed for 1 on 1 battles). I have seen X-Wing games where each player controls a single ship, but it isn't really balanced (some ships are a lot more powerful than others).

Why am I bringing this up?

I think that the option to retreat from the battle is very interesting in WoG. If each plane is controlled by a different player, it is more difficult to work together and takes a bit more thinking when planning your moves. This is especially true when players have the option of making a selfish decision (abandoning their buddies for that extra pilot skill).

I'm not saying that it wouldn't work in X-Wing, but I think it would be an easier decision for a player to send one of his ships off the board for that future pilot skill if he still has a couple of ships in the game.
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Matthew Scott
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Farsox wrote:
X-Wing is designed for each player to control a small squadron of ships and is ideal for 2-4 players (it is designed for 1 on 1 battles). I have seen X-Wing games where each player controls a single ship, but it isn't really balanced (some ships are a lot more powerful than others).


Couldn't this be balanced by assigning each player a max point total instead of just one ship? i.e. Each player gets 50 points worth of ship(s) and upgrades. Seems you could easily play a 200 pt game (8 players) in this way. I might take FOREVER but it would probably be a blast. Of course...what happens when the person who opts for 3 TIEs loses all of their ships in round 2 of a 3 hour game? Well...yeah...then back to what you were saying...
 
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Ignore the medals, etc on pilots, assign each 1 point (for a 1 point ability).

Survivors of missions get 2 point, so mission 2 those that survived have 3 points to spend, those that didn't 1.

3rd mission survivors get 6 points.

Eh simple idea
 
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Jeff White
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Farsox wrote:
This is especially true when players have the option of making a selfish decision (abandoning their buddies for that extra pilot skill).

I'm not saying that it wouldn't work in X-Wing, but I think it would be an easier decision for a player to send one of his ships off the board for that future pilot skill if he still has a couple of ships in the game.


I don't see it as a selfish decision at all. If the plane is out of ammo and/or it can only make left turns (rudder damage), or some other hinderance, I don't see how flying away from the battle to live and fight another day is 'abandoning their buddies'. Not when they can come back next battle in a new plane. I mean, isn't that how it really is? Granted, I've never been in a war, but just a guess. I mean, aren't the wounded taken to the rear to get fixed? No sense being wasteful with man or machine.

It's my biggest concern with this game. That there'd be no reason to do anything besides fly and shoot til you die. I'd just like to see incentives for a few more choices.
 
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Michael Hollar

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Selfish isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's the root of self preservation or survival. I will admit that, in your scenario, leaving the fight to gain skills for the next one is beneficial for all; but it still has a hint of self interest to it.

Regardless of motive, the end result is a single player deciding to leave the current battle. When there are more players controlling single planes, I could see the decision to fly away being a bit more difficult (and more interesting).

You could make it work in X-Wing, but WoG is much better suited for it.
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Skaak
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I have to agree with the other posters; out of the box, X-wing doesn't do what you are looking for at all. You'd be better off playing a game where ammunition makes sense.

That said, everyone else is correct that it's pretty straight forward to modify. Here are some additional ideas you could experiment with:

* Custom damage cards. You could certainly have a card that forced the ship to only be able to turn left, for instance (maybe something short-circuited). If you did faction-specific decks, this could be even more interesting, since you could do things like disable or destroy astromechs, etc.

* Provide healing to ships that flee. This could be between scenarios, or you could potentially do a timed thing (for every turn the ship is out of play, flip a critical face down, or every two turns heal one damage, etc.). Thematically, the ship could be returning to whatever cruiser launched it for repairs.

* Start everyone off with low-level generic pilots in the first mission, and upgrade survivors to named pilots (if you wanted to be really hard core, you could come up with some way to grade their performance based on number of hits, kills, shots avoided, etc. and have that influence what pilot skill they could upgrade to). This is the only way I can think of that really captures the "gaining ability" idea that you originally proposed, unless you want to mess around with restricting upgrades.

There's certainly other ways you could house-rule the game to take the focus off of strictly dogfighting, but of course none of this is going to just happen on its own out of the box because the game as designed by FFG is mostly focused on matches where whatever side wipes the other out completely wins.
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