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Subject: Someone had to ask... Ex&Pi vs Seafarers rss

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Kark Nissen
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Hello

In Seafarers your ships are almost static(you can move one ship each round at the end of your row of ships). You use the ships to "build roads" at the sea.
In Seafarers you only use the ships expand/explore(on sea hexes) to new area/hexes in the similar way as you do with roads.

In Ex$Pi you can move all of yous ships 4 legs at the end of your turn, once pointing to new undiscovered hex your turn(for that ship) ends.
With your ship you can bring one group og settlers, which can build a settlement at the newly discovered area. You can in later round move your ship back to your harbour-city/settlement(upgraded from settlement, instead regular city), and pickup another settler-group.
I havent tried it all yet, but there ar scenarioes with trading/fishing, which I guess involve some kind of transportation og fish/herbs.
(I bought the German version, an thats not my preferred foreign language for rule-reading.)

There are tons of stuff in the Ex$Pi box, me and my son made an unbox-vid, which can be seen here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/video/27797/catan-explorers-pir...

BTW: I didnt answer your question; I have not tried them together(yet), but I dont think it will be interesting bulding a sea-road with static ships(Seafarers) over moving ships around(Ex$Pi) 4 steps/legs each round. Ships cost the same(wool+lumber), Settlers-group cost the same as settlement. The cost for a settlement on a new island in Ex$Pi will be settlement+1ship. The price for settlement on new island in seafarers will be settlement+more-than-one-ship. Another issue: Will the static built shipping-routes from seafarers block the seaway for the ships in Ex$Pi?

Other opinions? Anyone?

Regards
KarkNissen
 
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Karl
Austria
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Not really, no. One would have to define two different sea areas, each using one of the two rules for ships.
 
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Reiner Dr. Düren
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KarkNissen wrote:
Hello

.... You can in later round move your ship back to your harbour-city/settlement(upgraded from settlement, instead regular city), and pickup another settler-group....


That's not possible. When you change your settler into a settlement, also the ship is taken away from the board and has to be built anew to pickup another settler-group.

Dr. Reiner Düren
Catan GmbH

PS: Here are some information on possible combinations with other scenarios: http://www.catan.com/game/catan-explorers-pirates-expansion#... The combination with seafarers is excluded.
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Jörg Baumgartner
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Pheznik2 wrote:
Can they work together? From what I gather this seems more like a part 2 to seafarers, any input?

Official soundbites say no. In my Catan blog, I discuss a way how to combine these: [blogpost=15261]Combining Explorers&Pirates with Seafarers of Catan[/blogpost]

A lot of the objections hold true if either ships could be used in the other's terrain without penalty. Fortunately, the interior frame clearly divides the board into two territories - high seas (where the E&P ships work normally, and ship lines don't) and the shallow seas of the Catan archipelago where ship lines work, contribute to the Longest Road, and provide bonus victory points when connecting settlements on different islands. Never mind if that connection existed when the settlement was placed, only the connection gives the bonus VP chip.

In order to keep the E&P ships from ruling supreme in the shallow seas, I apply the same movement rules to them as T&B does to the wagon in the Traders and Barbarians scenario (though limited to water). Any navigable edge left of the interior frame will be reckoned shallow waters and require either piloting (ship lines present, pay gold if it is not your ship line) or cost twice the movement points.

KarkNissen wrote:
In Ex$Pi you can move all of yous ships 4 legs at the end of your turn, once pointing to new undiscovered hex your turn(for that ship) ends.
With your ship you can bring one group of settlers, which can build a settlement at the newly discovered area.

Basically, your ship loaded with settlers can leave a settlement at any land hex it can reach in a legal place obeying the distance rule (provided there is no pirate lair preventing this). As was rightly pointed out, the ship is used up doing this. Still, compared to Seafarers, you pay only for one ship for each settlement, whereas in Seafarers you have to build at least 2 ships to obey the distance rule.



KarkNissen wrote:
BTW: I didnt answer your question; I have not tried them together(yet), but I dont think it will be interesting bulding a sea-road with static ships(Seafarers) over moving ships around(Ex$Pi) 4 steps/legs each round. Ships cost the same(wool+lumber), Settlers-group cost the same as settlement. The cost for a settlement on a new island in Ex$Pi will be settlement+1ship. The price for settlement on new island in seafarers will be settlement+more-than-one-ship. Another issue: Will the static built shipping-routes from seafarers block the seaway for the ships in Ex$Pi?n

There has been some productive discussion on siedeln.de once the idea of different bodies of water was agreed upon. Even a combination with Die Kolonien (using the German anniversary edition rules of this scenario) on an island between two different bodies of water.

You can have a set-up with an archipelago instead of a monolithic home island. Be warned that you need a larger table for this...

In E&P, equal access to harbor settlements on the interior frame is demanded. If you want to loosen up the home island, you'll have to make sure that these harbor settlements have equivalent production values. One suggestion I made is to place all of these harbor settlements on unproductive hexes, say on a reef barrier of skerries, or dunes (deserts) with outlets into the interior sea. If you place unproductive harbor settlements, increase the required number of VP by 1 (you'll start with 4 VP, but are less productive), and start normally with 2 settlements in the area of the shallow sea for purposes of resource generation, plus one unproductive harbor settlement.

If you want to play with harbors, treat the starting positions of the harbor settlements as universal harbor sites, and place special harbors in the interior sea. You might want to place additional universal harbors using the optional rule that for each additional harbor you can use another type of resource when trading 3:1 with the bank. So with 2 3:1 harbors, you can trade two cards of 1 kind and 1 of another for 1 card (or coin), with 3 3:1 harbors you can trade in 3 different cards.

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David Abraham
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Thanks, that answers alot.
 
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Kark Nissen
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Quote:
KarkNissen wrote:
Hello

.... You can in later round move your ship back to your harbour-city/settlement(upgraded from settlement, instead regular city), and pickup another settler-group....


That's not possible. When you change your settler into a settlement, also the ship is taken away from the board and has to be built anew to pickup another settler-group.

Dr. Reiner Düren
Catan GmbH


Yepp, You right, me wrong.

Ship are lost when building settlement with settler-group!

In other scenarioes, eg pirates lairs, you also use your ships to move crew to pirates lair, and the ship can move to new places(or back to harbour-settlement to pickup more crew) after the crew are left on the land hex to knock out the pirates.
KarkNissen
 
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Shoosh shoo
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Here is another question...

I own Catan, Seafareres, Cities and Knights, and Traders & Barbarians. I read about this game but so far I'm not convinced it's worth the $50 as it doesn't seem to be different enough. Have all those who bought the game think it's worth the money?

I would probably be interested in picking it up if i could find it cheaper but for $50 as I said I can't really see it being worth it.
 
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Jörg Baumgartner
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shooshoo wrote:
Here is another question...

I own Catan, Seafareres, Cities and Knights, and Traders & Barbarians. I read about this game but so far I'm not convinced it's worth the $50 as it doesn't seem to be different enough. Have all those who bought the game think it's worth the money?

I paid 24 Euros (20% off regular German price), and got myself a second copy after unpacking the first one.

If you like huge game boards for epic games, there is a whole lot of new hex area included. The interior frame is worth 23 sea hexes (though continuous pieces), the ordinary discovery hexes in green and yellow add 8 hexes each, each of the missions adds 6 hexes each. The exterior frame extensions add 3 universally usable frame hex widths plus 3 hexes width more if you restrict your game board to 7 rows of hexes. That's about the amount of hexes you get from the Basic Game and Seafarers combined.

The German edition has those plastic game pieces. I can't wait to get my hands on the Mayfair wooden pieces which will be sold in plastic land under the brand of Viking Edition. Yes, I'm willing to pay about 20 Euro for that set in addition to the original purchase price, and probably purchase a second set for more variety, too.


shooshoo wrote:
I would probably be interested in picking it up if i could find it cheaper but for $50 as I said I can't really see it being worth it.

Mayfair packs quite a bit of lumber with this game in addition to 12 sheets of punchout cardboard. Compared to other Catan games, I suppose the pricing is adequate.

Will this money be well spent in your enjoyment of the new game options?

That depends strongly on your preferences. E&P offers playability with 2 players without using any additional neutral game pieces or trade chits, making it playable with just one partner, too. The missions add new objectives to the exploration game, but I'm not convinced that they do much more in the sense of concepts than the last 2 scenarios in T&B.

You'll have to decide for yourself if the new mechanisms and the multitude of material is worth your money. I can't say anything about the production quality of the Mayfair edition, but I envy the Mayfair customers their early access to the wooden pieces.

I judge the combination possibilities with previous expansions higher than for T&B once certain obstacles (discussed above) are out of the way.
 
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Jacob Busby
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You could use the ships from Seafarers to mark charted seas. You build these ships along the edges of hexes, as you would in seafarers, except that you cannot move them. They do not count towards the "two ships per edge" rule in Explorers and Pirates, as they are not ships per se, but rather the extent of your cartographical skills.

Where the sea is charted, it costs your ships 1/2 the normal movement cost to move along charted seas, because you know where the prevailing winds, reefs, shallows and tidal eddies are. Hence for every two charting ships you build, your ships will essentially get a +1 movement bonus.

This effect only applies to your own charts. A red player would not get the benefit from the blue players charts.
 
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Paul
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Seafarers always felt like the weakest of the expansions; Explorers and Pirates seems more like a replacement than an addition.
 
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Paul
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My copy has now arrived, and after the first three plays it definitely has the feel of Seafarers, but with more going on. I could envision people attempting to replay the Seafarers scenarios and using some of the E&P elements, but copying the shipping method from Seafarers really wouldn't work.

Going back to the original post, yes - it really does feel like a reworked (and much improved) Seafarers, but using that title would have been confusing all round so they've called it something else.

So far I'm loving the fact that it works well as a 2-player game (played the intro one 3-player and the next two, which introduce pirates then fishing grounds as 2-player).
 
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Jörg Baumgartner
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The expansion can be played as is with two players.
 
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Travis Morton
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shooshoo wrote:
Here is another question...

I own Catan, Seafareres, Cities and Knights, and Traders & Barbarians. I read about this game but so far I'm not convinced it's worth the $50 as it doesn't seem to be different enough. Have all those who bought the game think it's worth the money?

I would probably be interested in picking it up if i could find it cheaper but for $50 as I said I can't really see it being worth it.


I too have the full catalog (all 4 expansions, and all 5-6 where available).

Seafarers has a few things going for it:
1) It was the first.
2) It is probably the easiest to explain to newer players as the ships in it are just roads with a twist
3) It also transitions to other variants so easily you see it is pracitcally demanded in Das Buch

Pirates & Explorers has some solid reasons as well:
1) it is so drastically different from the previous expansions; the pieces added are almost a new game in and of itself

2) Allowing ships to act like ships is kinda awesome

3) Each player gets their own pirate as opposed to the haphazard/corsair version in Seafarers

4) Its frame is built automatically for 3 Island territories, it is easier to setup that version

5) Fishing in P&E has more 'lifelike' feel. Mind you I love Fisherman of Catan as it adds an expedient resource like Oil Springs! does. This adds it as a goal, and as hexes.

Verdict:
They are different. If you have Seafarers, this is different enough to warrant the purchase.

If you do not have Seafarers, this is updated playwise to probably invest in unless you want the customization and simplicity to expand Settlers Base Set in the ways found in Das Buch

Also, as of now, there is no 5-6 P&E, trivial for most, but worth noting for some.
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Ben Peacock
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RedPiranha wrote:

PS: Here are some information on possible combinations with other scenarios: http://www.catan.com/game/catan-explorers-pirates-expansion#... The combination with seafarers is excluded.


Thank you!!!!
 
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