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Subject: PR Firm question rss

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Jason Emerson
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Played my first game of Suburbia over the weekend and a somewhat odd situation arose. I had a PR Firm and $2 cash but my income was at -5. I paid the $2 at the end of my turn and moved back 3 population spaces to pay the remaining 3 and in the process crossed a red line. Do I still get the +1 rep and +1 income for crossing the red line backwards even though I was not penalized (reputation) for crossing it in the first place? That seems wrong... We played it that I got the +1 income for crossing backwards but left reputation as is. I could see this becoming a little hard to keep track of (which red lines I crossed while the PR firm was in effect).

The PR firm says it has no effect when crossing red lines in the opposite direction but that doesn't help explain this situation.

Thanks!
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Big Head Zach
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I'm trying to recall if you can deliberately spend what you don't have, or if the rule of consuming population points only applies when being forced to pay money you don't have (negative income).
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Bruce Murphy
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But you were penalised crossing it the first time. The PR firm's bonus happened to cancel it out, but you still took the hit.

B>
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Eric Bettan
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We play it that the PR firm negates the reputation change on crossing the line either way. However reading the tile description is a bit confusing. I'm starting to think I'm playing it wrong.
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Bruce Murphy
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Carnage994 wrote:
We play it that the PR firm negates the reputation change on crossing the line either way. However reading the tile description is a bit confusing. I'm starting to think I'm playing it wrong.


Negate? Try it with an investment marker.

B>
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Mike Esquivel
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Consider that when you normally cross a red line, you lose rep & money. If you go back over the line, you regain what you lost. If you're not losing anything when you cross that line, there's nothing for you to gain back when you go back over it.
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Jason Emerson
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El_Squiv wrote:
Consider that when you normally cross a red line, you lose rep & money. If you go back over the line, you regain what you lost. If you're not losing anything when you cross that line, there's nothing for you to gain back when you go back over it.


I agree, that's how we played it. If I went over the line at 5 rep and remained at 5 rep because of the PR firm (ignoring if I invested in it for a moment), why would I go to 6 rep if I were to then move backwards across? I'm not regaining what I lost, I'm getting an extra rep that I never had before crossing the line.

I think what Bruce is saying is that you always get +1/+1 when going backwards over a red line. That is certainly easier to handle but still seems odd. Investing in the PR Firm makes it even weirder. Once again say I'm at 5 rep and I cross the line (forwards) leaving me at 6 rep (-1 for the line and +2 for the invested PR firm). Then I cross it backwards - I then go to 7 rep?
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James Nathan
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ProRock wrote:
Played my first game of Suburbia over the weekend and a somewhat odd situation arose. I had a PR Firm and $2 cash but my income was at -5. I paid the $2 at the end of my turn and moved back 3 population spaces to pay the remaining 3 and in the process crossed a red line. Do I still get the +1 rep and +1 income for crossing the red line backwards even though I was not penalized (reputation) for crossing it in the first place? That seems wrong... We played it that I got the +1 income for crossing backwards but left reputation as is. I could see this becoming a little hard to keep track of (which red lines I crossed while the PR firm was in effect).

The PR firm says it has no effect when crossing red lines in the opposite direction but that doesn't help explain this situation.

Thanks!


Yes you get the +1 income, +1 rep.

I'm not sure I get the confusion here. From page 2 of the rules regarding crossing red lines:

Quote:
If a player’s Population dips below a Red Line (this can happen if he has a negative Reputation) he moves both his Income Cylinder and his Reputation Cube forward (moved to the right one space).


There is no discussion of special cases regarding Casino or PR Firm. From page 3 of the tile manifest regarding the PR Firm:

Quote:
When passing a Red Line due to moving from a higher number to a lower number on the Scoreboard, this tile has no effect.


There is no discussion of "only has no effect if you crossed the line prior to obtaining the PR Firm" or something like that.
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Bruce Murphy
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This might seem like an odd corner case, but y really should never go backwards if you have the pr firm.

B>
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Jason Emerson
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I agree, the rules indicate you get the +1/+1. I'm not confused, I just can't reconcile why that makes sense. The PR Firm is just that good at positive publicity I suppose...

Yes, it's probably not a common situation but why do you say that you shouldn't move backwards when having a PR Firm? As I remember the game, I had built up a fairly high income (10-11 or so) but then saw it slowly diminsh as I started crossing red lines much more frequently as my score grew. Combine that with buying tiles and I ended up in the negative income with little cash in hand. Seemed worth it at the time as the game was coming to an end soon (I did win as well). It was my first game, maybe it will never happen again

Thanks for the responses everyone.
 
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Bruce Murphy
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Because once you have the pr firm you can mostly ignore the other track and take the odd income tile.

B>
 
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Ted Alspach
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In the tile list, it states "When passing a Red Line due to moving from a higher number to a lower number on the Scoreboard, this tile has no effect."

Therefore, you DO increase your reputation if you go backwards on the Population track across a red line.

I thought that was pretty clear...but clearly it was not pretty clear.
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Mike Esquivel
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toulouse wrote:
In the tile list, it states "When passing a Red Line due to moving from a higher number to a lower number on the Scoreboard, this tile has no effect."

Therefore, you DO increase your reputation if you go backwards on the Population track across a red line.

I thought that was pretty clear...but clearly it was not pretty clear.


Wow, I stand corrected. That's good to know.
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Jason Emerson
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Thanks Ted. I do think it's clear in the rules (nothing tells you to do otherwise). I was thinking of it as getting back what I lost so when I wound up better off than I started it seemed very strange. It made no difference in the game and it's a lot easier that way anyway.

Really enjoyed the game btw.
 
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Ian M
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One of the reasons that I love this game is that everything can be explained thematically.

Fancy restaurants in real life don't make as much money when there is a newer restaurant to compete, because they're all about the hot new thing. People don't like living or working next to landfills or slaughterhouses or airports.

So, if I'm reading this right, what that means is that the PR Firm can spin population growth and population loss into good PR, and keep people coming into the town.
 
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Benjamin Lindvall
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Indeed. "Come live in our town, there's plenty of room! Cheap housing!"
 
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Brent Wilson
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thepackrat wrote:
This might seem like an odd corner case, but y really should never go backwards if you have the pr firm.

B>


I'm glad I found this thread. Yesterday I unwittingly stumbled into this issue. I had a PR Firm and as I got up over 100 points, I noticed that investing in it would do crazy things. As I skipped ahead by 15 population per turn, my income quickly tanked down to -5 and my cash quickly ran out. It felt very odd to have my rep track pegged at 15 no matter how many population I gained or lost and my income track pegged at -5 (due to moving backwards across 2 or 3 lines and then forwards across 7 or 8 lines every turn). My final score was 176 BEFORE bonus tiles. I've never seen any one building do so much to effect gameplay before.
 
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Bill Buchanan
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PR Firm and Casino always stay in the box when I bring Suburbia to the table ...
 
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