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Jeff C
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This looks incredibly interesting, but I want to make sure I understand what this game actually is. I know it is a card based game, but is this an LCG (living card game) where there will be regular updates and everyone has equal access to cards, or is this a CCG (collectable card game) where money and luck determine who has the best cards? I'm sure it has been already said, but I have a hard time believing that with the insane success of the LCG model that this is going to be a CCG.


 
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Geek Scribe wrote:
This looks incredibly interesting, but I want to make sure I understand what this game actually is. I know it is a card based game, but is this an LCG (living card game) where there will be regular updates and everyone has equal access to cards, or is this a CCG (collectable card game) where money and luck determine who has the best cards? I'm sure it has been already said, but I have a hard time believing that with the insane success of the LCG model that this is going to be a CCG.




The game is definitely a CCG and not a LCG. The fact that you have to build up your codex with an infinite number of combos (and multiples of certain cards) makes having a LCG format impractical.

-Ski
 
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Michael Fuchs
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One thing that you should take a look at is the Avak'shar ranks (if I spelled that correctly.) Basically, they allow you to get cards by playing the game (from what I understand) so the cost of acquiring the cards you need is lowered. Besides that, I've also preordered a bunch of boxes and will be running a singles reseller at serpentstonguesingles.com, as well as trying to figure out how to do online tournaments so that those who don't have players near them can still enjoy the game.
 
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Jeff C
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Teamski wrote:
Geek Scribe wrote:
This looks incredibly interesting, but I want to make sure I understand what this game actually is. I know it is a card based game, but is this an LCG (living card game) where there will be regular updates and everyone has equal access to cards, or is this a CCG (collectable card game) where money and luck determine who has the best cards? I'm sure it has been already said, but I have a hard time believing that with the insane success of the LCG model that this is going to be a CCG.




The game is definitely a CCG and not a LCG. The fact that you have to build up your codex with an infinite number of combos (and multiples of certain cards) makes having a LCG format impractical.

-Ski


And see that is my fear, from the stand point of a gamer on a budget who is willing to plunk down his money, I feel the exact opposite. With Warhammer Invasion or AGoT: TCG I have a near infinite amount of combos and choices I can make in an LCG model, with the added benefit of being able to walk out right now and purchase the packs I need to get the cards I need. With a CCG model I have to go onto the secondary market or just waste money on random boosters to see what I can hopefully get. So while I could "possibly" get the combo I want, I will most likely have to pay much more for it in terms of packs full of worthless cards or go on the secondary market and let someone else profit from your game. Call me crazy, but I prefer to give my money directly to you at a price you set, not deal with third parties working in an artificial market with values they are setting themselves.

I will give you that the LCG model is more of a slow burn, because your core set starts out with enough to play the game, but maybe not tweek it to an infinite degree, but within a few months to a year the options are endless. You will be hard pressed to find a Netrunner player complaining that they don't have enough options to build a functioning deck. I especially don't want to have to go through the CCG method of card accumulation to play a co-op or solo game. I'm sure I might see the light if I were a tournement player, but then again, we turn to Netrunner which is a smash hit and has a HUGE tournie following. Also concerning is that even Netrunner couldn't survive as a CCG.

I really really want to see this game succeed because it is such a cool concept and you guys have put an absolute ton of work into it. I also appreciate how active you are on the boards. I'm just sad that I won't be joining in on the fun. On a side note, if I ever get around actually making a publishable board game, I am definitely going to try and hire Christopher to design the art!
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Geek Scribe wrote:


I really really want to see this game succeed because it is such a cool concept and you guys have put an absolute ton of work into it. I also appreciate how active you are on the boards. I'm just sad that I won't be joining in on the fun. On a side note, if I ever get around actually making a publishable board game, I am definitely going to try and hire Christopher to design the art!


Trust me, I am not a big fan of CCG's either, but this one is somehow different. Remember that the base game is designed to play stand alone. It is pretty cheap and you get two codices with it. I believe future versions of the game will only be single player modules.

Another big difference is the Avak shar points system that allows you to get those cards straight from UnBoUnd without having to resort to the secondary market. Avak shar points is a way for Serpent's Tongue to break from the MTG marketing model. Check it out.

The game comes with tons of cards on really high quality cardstock. The graphics alone are worth the investment. I don't think you will be disappointed. The preorders on the site are stupid cheap right now.

-Ski
 
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christopher gabrielson
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Hello Jeff,

Good questions and good points! We went back and forth for a while on CCG vs LCG. What we ended up with was a bit of a HYBRID of both. We have stand alone core sets that allow you to play for hundreds of hours, AND play competitively against other Magi that have larger collections. IN fact the spells in the Core Set are particularly powerful, useful and efficient for that.

The world of Magi in the game of Serpent's Tongue was just so perfect for expanding your collection via a CCG model however. Magi, scrambling for power, fighting over rare incantations, researching powerful rituals, ransacking ancient caches, gaining rank in their factions to gain access to Arcanums etc...

Of course the CCG model is a bit exploitative lets face it. Ive always though so anyway. Thus we have shifted the hybrid over towards the lcg side even more through the above-mentioned Avak'shar system (which means Honor, or Authority in the language of Sehimu Thinara).

Avak'shar Can be gained through 3 primary avenues of interaction: Luck, Social and Puzzle Solving.

A variable but substantial amount of Avak'sahr is gained through each Inscription pack, Core Set, and expansion purchased. Also through online participation, creating master apprentice relationships, attending actual events, creating cabals, participating in Online Pve encounters. Thirdly and most importantly by unlocking the various levels of your mystery paths. (The game within the game of Serpent's Tongue.) Most of these methods will be available immediately upon launch.

With Avak'shar you can pick out whatever spells, artifacts, specializations, titles you desire and gain them for Free. You can also unlock and obtain special Avak'shar only Spell sets like the Voo'doo specialization and its accompanying Incantation cards.

This is not a frequent flyer program that takes thousands of points to do anything substantial. On average You will be able to pick out a spell from the avak'shar gained from a single Inscription pack, albeit not ultra expensive ones. Some packs will gain tremendous amounts of Avak'shar that will allow you to gain even Apocryphal level cards from that single pack. Thus each inscription pack will gain you Random Cards and one you choose. Is there some luck involved? Hell yeah, there is. On the inscription pack side we have luck, and on the mystery path side we have hard work and brains, both will guide you to the exact cards you want. Now if you are unlucky AND stupid... well those traits dont add up well for a master of magick. LOL jk. The third avenue for Avak'shar is Social, with the ability to create Cabals and form Master / Apprentice relationships, Magi will augment each other's avak'shar generation, without losing any of their own. Cabals and Master / Apprentices are synergistic relationships; when on member of the Cabal gains, All the cabal members gain an additional percentage. The Master / Apprentice relationship is even more profound. In addition to this online involvement, card creation & testing, online pve encounters etc... will garner Avak'shar. Once we are more established then we hope to expand the mystery paths AND the social element to game centers & events around the world.

Why all the hoops? Well, I think its going to be fun. And different. It will help break the fourth wall of the gaming experience AND be non-exploitative.

And THATS my treatise on the CCG/LCG hybrid nature of Serpents Tongue.
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Jeff C
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shockmoth wrote:
Hello Jeff,

Good questions and good points! We went back and forth for a while on CCG vs LCG. What we ended up with was a bit of a HYBRID of both. We have stand alone core sets that allow you to play for hundreds of hours, AND play competitively against other Magi that have larger collections. IN fact the spells in the Core Set are particularly powerful, useful and efficient for that.

The world of Magi in the game of Serpent's Tongue was just so perfect for expanding your collection via a CCG model however. Magi, scrambling for power, fighting over rare incantations, researching powerful rituals, ransacking ancient caches, gaining rank in their factions to gain access to Arcanums etc...

Of course the CCG model is a bit exploitative lets face it. Ive always though so anyway. Thus we have shifted the hybrid over towards the lcg side even more through the above-mentioned Avak'shar system (which means Honor, or Authority in the language of Sehimu Thinara).

Avak'shar Can be gained through 3 primary avenues of interaction: Luck, Social and Puzzle Solving.

A variable but substantial amount of Avak'sahr is gained through each Inscription pack, Core Set, and expansion purchased. Also through online participation, creating master apprentice relationships, attending actual events, creating cabals, participating in Online Pve encounters. Thirdly and most importantly by unlocking the various levels of your mystery paths. (The game within the game of Serpent's Tongue.) Most of these methods will be available immediately upon launch.

With Avak'shar you can pick out whatever spells, artifacts, specializations, titles you desire and gain them for Free. You can also unlock and obtain special Avak'shar only Spell sets like the Voo'doo specialization and its accompanying Incantation cards.

This is not a frequent flyer program that takes thousands of points to do anything substantial. On average You will be able to pick out a spell from the avak'shar gained from a single Inscription pack, albeit not ultra expensive ones. Some packs will gain tremendous amounts of Avak'shar that will allow you to gain even Apocryphal level cards from that single pack. Thus each inscription pack will gain you Random Cards and one you choose. Is there some luck involved? Hell yeah, there is. On the inscription pack side we have luck, and on the mystery path side we have hard work and brains, both will guide you to the exact cards you want. Now if you are unlucky AND stupid... well those traits dont add up well for a master of magick. LOL jk. The third avenue for Avak'shar is Social, with the ability to create Cabals and form Master / Apprentice relationships, Magi will augment each other's avak'shar generation, without losing any of their own. Cabals and Master / Apprentices are synergistic relationships; when on member of the Cabal gains, All the cabal members gain an additional percentage. The Master / Apprentice relationship is even more profound. In addition to this online involvement, card creation & testing, online pve encounters etc... will garner Avak'shar. Once we are more established then we hope to expand the mystery paths AND the social element to game centers & events around the world.

Why all the hoops? Well, I think its going to be fun. And different. It will help break the fourth wall of the gaming experience AND be non-exploitative.

And THATS my treatise on the CCG/LCG hybrid nature of Serpents Tongue.


Damnit, now I'm leaning back over onto the "buy it" side of the fence! I still have concerns about picking it up to play with my son in a few years when he's older. So I'm hoping that a vibrant community develops so it will still be around when he and I can participate in some of the events.
 
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Teamski wrote:
Geek Scribe wrote:


I really really want to see this game succeed because it is such a cool concept and you guys have put an absolute ton of work into it. I also appreciate how active you are on the boards. I'm just sad that I won't be joining in on the fun. On a side note, if I ever get around actually making a publishable board game, I am definitely going to try and hire Christopher to design the art!


Trust me, I am not a big fan of CCG's either, but this one is somehow different. Remember that the base game is designed to play stand alone. It is pretty cheap and you get two codices with it. I believe future versions of the game will only be single player modules.

Another big difference is the Avak shar points system that allows you to get those cards straight from UnBoUnd without having to resort to the secondary market. Avak shar points is a way for Serpent's Tongue to break from the MTG marketing model. Check it out.

The game comes with tons of cards on really high quality cardstock. The graphics alone are worth the investment. I don't think you will be disappointed. The preorders on the site are stupid cheap right now.

-Ski


I've seen and heard all this before. Right down to the "spend points to get those cards you didnt get" And it just doesnt work that way. This is still a CCG, random buy, buy buy buy, on top of the KS deal which will make things really off kilter at some point. Possibly very fast.

This should have gone the LCG route. CCGing it will in the long run doom it despite the initial interest wave for a very interesting approach. Once that wears off and players see the money sink ahead is where its going to go the same route as every other.

I worked in the CCG biz, I even designed some cards and footed the bill for cards way back. You cannot spin doctor this.
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The Serpent's Tongue website has an explanation of the Avak'shar system. It looks like a pretty cool system! I am looking forward to figuring out the secrets hidden in the codex to get more cards!

http://www.becomemagi.com/avakshar-system-expands/

-Ski
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Omega2064 wrote:

I worked in the CCG biz, I even designed some cards and footed the bill for cards way back. You cannot spin doctor this.


Yea, it really is too bad that it's a CCG model. There's absolutely no way to make it palatable.

I was getting pretty excited about the game until I found this out (even with knowing about the avakashar system. The CCG model is not a good reason for that system either, it's a really cool reward/loyalty system that would support an LCG just as well). Also, the reward system doesn't make it non-exploitative at all, maybe less (maybe, maybe more..). Either way, exploitative is still exploitative.
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Candi wrote:
Omega2064 wrote:

I worked in the CCG biz, I even designed some cards and footed the bill for cards way back. You cannot spin doctor this.


Yea, it really is too bad that it's a CCG model. There's absolutely no way to make it palatable.

I was getting pretty excited about the game until I found this out (even with knowing about the avakashar system. The CCG model is not a good reason for that system either, it's a really cool reward/loyalty system that would support an LCG just as well). Also, the reward system doesn't make it non-exploitative at all, maybe less (maybe, maybe more..). Either way, exploitative is still exploitative.


I really couldn't see how this could be a LCG. With the customizable codex, you couldn't get the multiples of certain cards you need unless they simply released fixed decks that would really limit the game system. I am not a big fan of CCG's, but here, it makes sense.

-Ski
 
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Teamski wrote:
Candi wrote:
Omega2064 wrote:

I worked in the CCG biz, I even designed some cards and footed the bill for cards way back. You cannot spin doctor this.


Yea, it really is too bad that it's a CCG model. There's absolutely no way to make it palatable.

I was getting pretty excited about the game until I found this out (even with knowing about the avakashar system. The CCG model is not a good reason for that system either, it's a really cool reward/loyalty system that would support an LCG just as well). Also, the reward system doesn't make it non-exploitative at all, maybe less (maybe, maybe more..). Either way, exploitative is still exploitative.


I really couldn't see how this could be a LCG. With the customizable codex, you couldn't get the multiples of certain cards you need unless they simply released fixed decks that would really limit the game system. I am not a big fan of CCG's, but here, it makes sense.

-Ski


Ski, I am not sure whether I don't get your point or you don't understand LCG model. To get multiple of certain cards with CCG model, you need to buy random number of packs. with LCG model you need to buy exactly the pack you want in the quantity you want. Moreover there is no race after rares in LCG.
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Heishiro1976 wrote:
Teamski wrote:
Candi wrote:
Omega2064 wrote:

I worked in the CCG biz, I even designed some cards and footed the bill for cards way back. You cannot spin doctor this.


Yea, it really is too bad that it's a CCG model. There's absolutely no way to make it palatable.

I was getting pretty excited about the game until I found this out (even with knowing about the avakashar system. The CCG model is not a good reason for that system either, it's a really cool reward/loyalty system that would support an LCG just as well). Also, the reward system doesn't make it non-exploitative at all, maybe less (maybe, maybe more..). Either way, exploitative is still exploitative.


I really couldn't see how this could be a LCG. With the customizable codex, you couldn't get the multiples of certain cards you need unless they simply released fixed decks that would really limit the game system. I am not a big fan of CCG's, but here, it makes sense.

-Ski


Ski, I am not sure whether I don't get your point or you don't understand LCG model. To get multiple of certain cards with CCG model, you need to buy random number of packs. with LCG model you need to buy exactly the pack you want in the quantity you want. Moreover there is no race after rares in LCG.


I understand the LCG model. Either way, you end up buying packs with a lot of useless cards.....

-Ski
 
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Teamski wrote:
Heishiro1976 wrote:
Teamski wrote:
Candi wrote:
Omega2064 wrote:

I worked in the CCG biz, I even designed some cards and footed the bill for cards way back. You cannot spin doctor this.


Yea, it really is too bad that it's a CCG model. There's absolutely no way to make it palatable.

I was getting pretty excited about the game until I found this out (even with knowing about the avakashar system. The CCG model is not a good reason for that system either, it's a really cool reward/loyalty system that would support an LCG just as well). Also, the reward system doesn't make it non-exploitative at all, maybe less (maybe, maybe more..). Either way, exploitative is still exploitative.


I really couldn't see how this could be a LCG. With the customizable codex, you couldn't get the multiples of certain cards you need unless they simply released fixed decks that would really limit the game system. I am not a big fan of CCG's, but here, it makes sense.

-Ski


Ski, I am not sure whether I don't get your point or you don't understand LCG model. To get multiple of certain cards with CCG model, you need to buy random number of packs. with LCG model you need to buy exactly the pack you want in the quantity you want. Moreover there is no race after rares in LCG.


I understand the LCG model. Either way, you end up buying packs with a lot of useless cards.....

-Ski


well yes, but less packs
 
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Piggy backing on this, (and just so I'm clear), is there a list somewhere of everything that will be included if you were an original kickstarter or one of the immediate post-kick backers?
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Heishiro1976 wrote:

well yes, but less packs


Point taken.

-Ski
 
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The only way it couldn't fit the LCG model is if there is no limit on number of cards with the same name in your codex. If that's the case, then I predict either the game will eventually invoke a limit, or it will have died before that comes to pass. No limit on cards (like Magic's up to 4, or L5R and Netrunner's up to 3) in deck makes the money sink of a CCG that much more painful (and salient to competitive players).

If there is a limit, then a "pack" on the LCG model contains exactly 1 full playset of all of the cards in it. There would be no need to buy more than one of each released pack.

Also, in the LCG model, there is no good reason to have cards that are better or worse than other cards -- rarity in the CCG model is what necessitates having "weak cards" and "desirable powerful cards". Which is to say, there are no "useless" cards (ideally) in the LCG model, while they are (traditionally) built into the CCG model (and really shouldn't be, the least they could do is not adopt the "useless common card/really powerful rare card" paradigm).
 
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christopher gabrielson
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We will see how the community responds to this new model. I hope many will like it! I think it will be much more interactive than an LCG and more fun, BECAUSE some cards are going to be more efficient and powerful (although they will also be more difficult to cast using the language system.) Thus you can enjoy collecting those cards that fit your playstyle, codex, favorite specializations or that happen to combo with your cooler artifacts, out of the base 600 cards, without having to rely on buying case(s) of inscription packs, because of the Avak'shar system.

Player Magi begin collecting Avak'shar simply by purchasing the game, and registering online. We expect players will be able to earn up to 75 cards a year through just this and online interaction. Without having to purchase anything more. No physical LCG or CCG can provide this. We have developed a PLAY to PLAY system. : )

The Inscription Packs are slightly more expensive per card than buying a LCG expansion. Compare to a $29.95 retail price for a LOTR expansion or a $20 Cthulhuh expansion deck. The latter has 100 cards the equivalent price in Inscription packs has 60, but the Inscription Packs also have cards 2.7 times larger and 80% thicker as well as enough Avak'shar on average for 5-10 cards that YOU pick out online.

Of course you know exactly what cards you are getting, and what your opponents are getting from that expansion, while you only know 10% of the cards you are getting with Inscription Packs. But that 10% is GAME-WIDE, and thus in some ways more efficient of a selection than an LCG with 25 expansions. Some may find that LCG system boring, some may find it re-assuring. We are walking the line in between the two. The pleasure and excitement of personal collections combined with the assurance and efficient price point of LCG's. PLUS a free 'subscription' to more cards throughout the year, AND a comprehensive ARG Mystery Path game that exists within the Serpents Tongue community, LOL can you tell I love my game?
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Chris:
I understand the Avak'shar system is very awesome to the players. I just can't get how you guys are going to fund all this.
If the few hundreds of players getting the game from the get go form cabals, master/apprentice pairs, and play continuously online, they will garner some bad ass Avak'shar. Without giving you a penny more.

Of course, while these people play, they will introduce their friends to the game, who might then get excited and buy the core set etc. But then again, those players will gain near-free Avak'shar, which accounts to more printing costs to you guys, and less sells in inscription packs. I trust you guys have rolled the numbers to death over there, but to me this system of giving away stuff as a reward just for...playing, seems so unbelievable.
 
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THAT is a fascinating question AND requires, imo, an equally fascinating response. I hope I will not grow too verbose. But I must warn you it does happen to be a particular penchant of mine. Be warned.

To explain our model may require a completely different mindset and perspective not only on traditional business models but to some degree general outlook on reality itself. Id hate to short change the philosophy by calling it abundance from abundant practices, but allow me my personal mysticism (which is definitively and rapidly being adopted as a growing trend and movement within the business community both locally and globally) and forgive me any cliche catechisms which might otherwise ring hollow, impractical or eccentric. In short: we are giving more, at the expense of profits.

We are currently operating with a gifted group of team members of near genius levels in their particular careers and skill sets; and as volunteer/partners. Dont take my word for it; look them up. We have a lead programmer from Nintendo who has facilitated one of the most state of the art card game design tools ever to be created, in the form of the FCN. This is a developers dream software, that not only allows us to create cards, edit, and export at print qualities, but also ties in community responses, comments and even backer created cards/concepts/mechanics with the press of a button. Art is even licensed and signed by artists at a similarly simple stroke. Thanks to Jeremy Scherer.

We have one of the WORLD's up and coming international game design / graphic designers, who has been head hunted by over 4 different game companies since he began restructuring the visual elements of Serpent's Tongue, but continues to labor away full time as a volunteer for this project; Jere Kasanen.

We have Mark Rosenfelder, definitively the world's leading constructed language expert and author of the language construction kit jumping in to develop the coolest language component to a game/movie/book/media that you have ever imagined; again at practically volunteer levels.

The list goes on and on with Jason Carter our mystery path developer, Greg Krywusha our Art Designer, Adam Duncan our lead writer, James Wright editor in Chief not to mention our assistants Alexey Andronov, Stephen Mercer, and the 6 Keepers of the spheres... lol the list continues for quite a while, and I apologize for not mentioning each one specifically but you get the point.

This allows us to launch this game at ridiculously tight levels of efficiency. It means we get to operate at below industry required levels of profit margins during the usually difficult times of a games launch before it obtains economies of scale.

In short; we get to fudge it. We are highly efficient at this point, and once we achieve economies of scale, we will be able to transition to a more profitable model that, by our math, will be able to sustain this revolutionary CCG/LCG model, through the inherent 'free' marketing of such an abundant system to the player.

Did I do it? Did I wax too verbose? Here's another description of this systems viability. The cards themselves, in ANY game, even in ours, where the cards are 3 times as large and almost twice as thick, are not in and of themselves expensive. It is the freight, packaging, and distribution of them that takes the lion's share. By creating a storehouse of cards that players are able to unlock and pick out for free, we are immediately capitalizing on those economies of scale, for those cards are stored in bulk, picked and shipped at envelope pricing without having to go through distributors, retailers, or utilizing expensive packing materials and game-box packaging etc...

Anyway, we HAVE run the numbers time and time again, and we can do this. We can offer a continuing game from a single purchase. Particularly since human nature being what it is, there will always be those Magi that feel compelled to fast track themselves, despite the cost. The more so if they have an ever expanding community to operate within.

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Esa Ryömä
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Hahah, Chris, you are indeed a gentleman and a sir gifted in the arts of verbal communication

Thank you for your elaborate answer. It's a matter that has had me worried for some time: as an excited player I would like for you guys to keep creating stuff and be able to 1) get your bread & butter 2) keep Unbound up and running.
During my years in the game industry I've seen too many relics and ruins of old TCGs. It's just...sad, and I never, ever want that fate to happen to ST. I've also had my look at the more traditional publishing model, and your deviation from it seemed...financially insecure. Basically, ST wouldn't be happening without a) Kickstarter b) a crazy talented team mostly working for meager peanuts just because they believe in the project

Reading your post, I realized that "In short: we are giving more, at the expense of profits" is not as deviant as I thought it is. I've had classes in entrepreneurship and have talked to people from some successful game companies (I've been interested in entering the publishing industry myself), and the message is always the same:
"Don't expect to make profits in the FIRST FEW YEARS. It takes time to gather fame, respect and a steady customer base. And you will need to work your ass off to get all that."
Any company entering a ready market needs to come up with a way to establish itself. A brick & mortar board game store close to me took the way of undercutting market prices so low that it becomes a valid option for customers in other stores. But that's like biting your own leg / sawing the branch you're on, etc.

Cheers to Unbound, and I truly hope you can achieve a self-sustainable market point. In the mean time, I'll just quote magi Kato Hearts:
"This just in: We’re going to be rolling in Avak’ Shar."
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John "Omega" Williams
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Unfortunatly this banks on alot of "IFs"... and its been tried before as said.

Can it work? Chaotic is still around and Dragon Storm would be if they hadnt been killed off by an uncontrolled RPGA style organization for it. And DS had the Avak'shar, in that case Grandilar Gold from the get-go. Collect GG and turn it in for rares, starters, uncut card sheets even. The more you participated the more you got back. In fact it was the first CCG to offer it and one of the few to ever do so. Also one of the first CCGs to strike off into totally unknown territory as it was a real RPG rather than a card game with some RPG terms tossed in.

So yeah. Seen it before.

Something I sure hope you have looked at is retailer reaction. Retailers have been strongly pushing publishers to move away from the CCG format and some will refuse a game on that basis.

Advertising is a must if you want this system to work. Get a spot in gaming magazines, etc. Dont rely on just word of mouth. You need to garner attention well outside that.

Lastly. Drop the spin doctoring spiel. Just be up front with players. This is a (semi fixed?) CCG with a robust point based bonus system to get more cards. The more you participate the greater the potential rewards. Do more-Get more.
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Team Ski
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The thing I love about Serpent's Tongue is that it is a true grass-roots gaming effort. We aren't talking about a big company kicking out yet another CCG/LCG, but individuals scratch-building a gaming experience. This is what Kickstarter is all about. When you have a creator that is passionate about his project as Chris is, you get a true boutique gaming experience. The world that Chris created along with the development crew pushes ST out of the run of the mill card game realm that MTG created. For the first time, you have to do a bit of studying to get ahead. Remember, ST is not a game of collecting rares and simply throwing them out on the table. No, you have to know your cards here. That alone dispels a lot of power creep from high priced rare cards you see in other games. A player who can throw out common level 2 or 3 spells competently will wallop a doofus who shows up with a ton of rare 4th level cards and can't recite the incantations. That makes for one intriguing game. Once you understand how the game works, I think you will find that it isn't all about having the rarest cards. Indeed, you probably don't want to touch them unless you study the language and are conversant in it. Man, I love that level of depth!

-Ski
 
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Mickey
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Teamski wrote:
The thing I love about Serpent's Tongue is that it is a true grass-roots gaming effort. We aren't talking about a big company kicking out yet another CCG/LCG, but individuals scratch-building a gaming experience. This is what Kickstarter is all about. When you have a creator that is passionate about his project as Chris is, you get a true boutique gaming experience. The world that Chris created along with the development crew pushes ST out of the run of the mill card game realm that MTG created. For the first time, you have to do a bit of studying to get ahead. Remember, ST is not a game of collecting rares and simply throwing them out on the table. No, you have to know your cards here. That alone dispels a lot of power creep from high priced rare cards you see in other games. A player who can throw out common level 2 or 3 spells competently will wallop a doofus who shows up with a ton of rare 4th level cards and can't recite the incantations. That makes for one intriguing game. Once you understand how the game works, I think you will find that it isn't all about having the rarest cards. Indeed, you probably don't want to touch them unless you study the language and are conversant in it. Man, I love that level of depth!

-Ski


Well... I am still not really sold on the part where you need to know the language or be conversant in it to play high level cards. Since one can only use 33 spells in its codex including duplicates. One need only to learn that many incantations. There is no need for the gameplay to know any other part of the language than the incantations on your cards, and obviously one would not risk to fill its codex with unfamiliar incantations.
As any deck building game, the player who knows the effect of its own cards better and the combos that can be done will win.
 
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Jessey
Canada
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I also purchased this and do not know what to do with it!
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Heishiro1976 wrote:

Well... I am still not really sold on the part where you need to know the language or be conversant in it to play high level cards. Since one can only use 33 spells in its codex including duplicates. One need only to learn that many incantations. There is no need for the gameplay to know any other part of the language than the incantations on your cards, and obviously one would not risk to fill its codex with unfamiliar incantations.

As any deck building game, the player who knows the effect of its own cards better and the combos that can be done will win.


This exactly. I mean, the incantations mechanic is cool and thematic (and is what drew me to the game until I found out it was a CCG), but as someone just starting to study biology I can tell you that it's not terribly difficult to memorize 30 or so distinct "words" and associate them with specific cues (cards).

Rarely if ever, at a moderately high level of play (and even low, casual levels) will you have players actually messing up their incantations. The outcome of games will not depend on knowledge of the "language" but on, as said, knowledge of card effects and combos.
 
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