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Saints in Armor» Forums » Rules

Subject: LOS example and Question Re Arty rss

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Kev.
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Please let me know if this is a valid LOS for the various examples shown.


NOTE Skim readers- THIS IMAGE IS INCORRECT!!
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David Ekberg
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Tough one, as often LOS issues are.

First, it should be steep slopes since it looks like it is White Mountain. Gentle slopes never stop LOS, only grazing fire.

To me it seems that the rightmost shot have LOS. The left part of Hohenlohe double HI) is 2 hexes from the slope in 2414. Hence a dead zone of 2 hexes extend below each slope. The right part has a 1 hex dead zone.
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Michael McCalpin
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I don't know the answer to your question, but I must say how much I like the quality of the photograph and the annotations on it. For an LOS question, this is particularly helpful, but it's just plain nice to look at.
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Kev.
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Engelbrekt wrote:
Tough one, as often LOS issues are.

First, it should be steep slopes since it looks like it is White Mountain. Gentle slopes never stop LOS, only grazing fire.

To me it seems that the rightmost shot have LOS. The left part of Hohenlohe double HI) is 2 hexes from the slope in 2414. Hence a dead zone of 2 hexes extend below each slope. The right part has a 1 hex dead zone.


That is why I asked the question. This Terrain is all Gentle Slope. Unless the graphics changed. There are no Steep slopes only cliffs.

Steep slopes have strokes thru hexsides and create dead zones.

These Gentle sopes do not. Every other game I have played would say a unit set back on a higher level (stacked pancake style) would not have a LOS.

According the rules I'm seeing ALL of these are eligible shots for standard arty/cannon fire...
 
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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Slopes in MPBS are defined in the scenario special rules as either gentle or steep - this defines ALL slopes in that scenario

Cliffs is a special terrain type that only effect those slopes clearly marked as cliffs
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David Ekberg
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hipshot wrote:
Engelbrekt wrote:
Tough one, as often LOS issues are.

First, it should be steep slopes since it looks like it is White Mountain. Gentle slopes never stop LOS, only grazing fire.

To me it seems that the rightmost shot have LOS. The left part of Hohenlohe double HI) is 2 hexes from the slope in 2414. Hence a dead zone of 2 hexes extend below each slope. The right part has a 1 hex dead zone.


That is why I asked the question. This Terrain is all Gentle Slope. Unless the graphics changed. There are no Steep slopes only cliffs.

Steep slopes have strokes thru hexsides and create dead zones.

These Gentle sopes do not. Every other game I have played would say a unit set back on a higher level (stacked pancake style) would not have a LOS.

According the rules I'm seeing ALL of these are eligible shots for standard arty/cannon fire...


Kev, like Brian said the special rules define all slopes as either steep or gentle. The map art is the same. For White Mountain, see special rule 1: all slopes are steep.

Hope you are enjoying the game! As I said I hope to see more videos like the nice one you made.

//David
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Kev.
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Engelbrekt wrote:
Tough one, as often LOS issues are.

First, it should be steep slopes since it looks like it is White Mountain. Gentle slopes never stop LOS, only grazing fire.

To me it seems that the rightmost shot have LOS. The left part of Hohenlohe double HI) is 2 hexes from the slope in 2414. Hence a dead zone of 2 hexes extend below each slope. The right part has a 1 hex dead zone.


Duh.. Scenario Rules ...sigh.whistlewhistle

ok.. I want to get this right as I am writing about it. I assumed incorrectly about dead zones.

Read the entire part of 10.9.3 B.....

In this case then A & B would have LoS. The yellow shaded area is the dead zone for the Left portion of the 2Hex unit. The notation labeled B, for the 2nd hex of the same unit.

Am I closer.. sorry for being dense here.
 
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Jonathan Holen
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I can't understand your pic Kev.

Wondering if M&P is for me surprise
 
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Kev.
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It appears that for each hex back from the steep slope a dead zone is created beyond that slope for the first level that interferes.

Yellow is 2 hex dead zone. white is a one hex dead zone.
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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You'd do better to post the image and pose the question in the Musket & Pike series folder on ConsimWorld. The designer answers such questions regularly there. See here and here for recent examples where people posted similar images for discussionn (the latter actually discusses dead zones).
 
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Kev.
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thx. I'll carry on regardless, I'm not about to jack around with html formating over there.
 
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Jonathan Holen
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hipshot wrote:
thx. I'll carry on regardless, I'm not about to jack around with html formating over there.
< img src = "Cry me a river!" >
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Ralph Shelton
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Kevin,

I would completely agree with your picture above, if it weren't for the second steep slope. I believe that there should also be a dead zone extending along the path to the 2nd hex of the unit as it crosses the second steep slope.

I do wonder if the second steep slope in the LOS to the 1st hex has any effect, even though it is in the blind spot. But suspect that since the steep slope is part of the blind hex it does not apply.

Most of the maps do not have consecutive steep slopes like White Mountain.
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hipshot wrote:
thx. I'll carry on regardless, I'm not about to jack around with html formating over there.

Whatever. You know how you click the icon for external image link here, and it gives you a dropdown to paste in the link? You do exactly the same thing there.
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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Somebody linked your image on CSW, and Ben Hull has already responded to it. Maybe if you put on some hip waders you could chance wading in to read what he had to say.
 
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Kev.
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Sphere wrote:
hipshot wrote:
thx. I'll carry on regardless, I'm not about to jack around with html formating over there.

Whatever. You know how you click the icon for external image link here, and it gives you a dropdown to paste in the link? You do exactly the same thing there.


Thats right you can post a link, but you need to type to insert images.

I was not at my desk with my handy dandy sticky note.

Thanks.
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Kev.
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revnye wrote:
Kevin,

I would completely agree with your picture above, if it weren't for the second steep slope. I believe that there should also be a dead zone extending along the path to the 2nd hex of the unit as it crosses the second steep slope.

I do wonder if the second steep slope in the LOS to the 1st hex has any effect, even though it is in the blind spot. But suspect that since the steep slope is part of the blind hex it does not apply.

Most of the maps do not have consecutive steep slopes like White Mountain.


ok Ralph thanks. now that I understand the 'distance back from first steep hexside' concept. As you mention tho do second and subsequent steep hexside count too?

I'm playing they do not. Given you are at a "crest" I'm assuming you can see down past you closest dead zones, though it could go either way.
 
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Ralph Shelton
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Ben replied and said that the image is correct. That would mean that the lower slope lines do not matter. While that makes some sense, the rules do not say that, especially in regards to the LOS to the 2nd hex of the 2 hex unit.
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Kev.
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revnye wrote:
Ben replied and said that the image is correct. That would mean that the lower slope lines do not matter. While that makes some sense, the rules do not say that, especially in regards to the LOS to the 2nd hex of the 2 hex unit.

Thanks Ralph..Got a package today ..Dude it was UP. Very nice.
 
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