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Subject: Is the first spawn point doomed? rss

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Luke
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Hey all,

I've only played maybe four games of this total,(spent much more time painting than playing) and it seems that whichever spawn point is placed on the first board, is doomed.

I.e. destroyed in the first round.

Do you find this to often be the case? Should the consul spawn forces there with the mindset that the spawn point will be immediately destroyed?
 
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Steve B.
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Yup, it's a goner. Many times it's taken out by the very first Hero activated.

The Consul want's to spawn High Hp/Def Mobs at the first point, just to try and annoy the Heroes if little else.
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G G
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@OP: The first spawn is pretty much guaranteed to be wiped Turn 1. The Heroes arrive in force, with full Potions, in walking distance of the spawn. Every Hero should be able to make good attacks against it.

Consul strategy should be to slow them down, and make them waste time in the first room, allowing forces to build in the other rooms.

OTOH, if the Heroes roll badly and/or screw around with Treasure, instead of killing Spawns, then take full advantage!
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Steve B.
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Styfen wrote:
darkmagi wrote:
Yup, it's a goner. Many times it's taken out by the very first Hero activated.

The Consul want's to spawn High Hp/Def Mobs at the first point, just to try and annoy the Heroes if little else.

Not quite, High Def/LOW HP are the best choice, don't give away those loot drops!


I was thinking specifically of the beetle and spider (who both have 3 HP) when I typed that, but otherwise your right, high def with low HP would be best.
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Luke
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Thanks for all the replies.

I'll make sure the group is aware of this before the next time we play. Don't want the consul getting disheartened too early.
 
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Alex Frikium
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mournful wrote:
spent much more time painting than playing


good man!
 
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Fernando Robert Yu
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GrauGeist wrote:
@OP: The first spawn is pretty much guaranteed to be wiped Turn 1. The Heroes arrive in force, with full Potions, in walking distance of the spawn. Every Hero should be able to make good attacks against it.

Consul strategy should be to slow them down, and make them waste time in the first room, allowing forces to build in the other rooms.

OTOH, if the Heroes roll badly and/or screw around with Treasure, instead of killing Spawns, then take full advantage!


In 1 of the 4 games I've played as the consul, the heroes totally whiffed their attempts to kill the first spawn point. Coincidentally (or maybe ominously?) I manage to beat the heroes for the first time.

So you cannot really say if the 1st spawn point will go down. After all, there is a chance the consul can win the initiative and go first, and what he does then can dictate whether or not the heroes can destroy the first spawn point. I do have to say that smart heroes WILL go after it though, so as a consul my initial deployment will assume that it WILL get destroyed.
 
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G G
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freddieyu wrote:
GrauGeist wrote:
@OP: The first spawn is pretty much guaranteed to be wiped Turn 1. The Heroes arrive in force, with full Potions, in walking distance of the spawn. Every Hero should be able to make good attacks against it.

Consul strategy should be to slow them down, and make them waste time in the first room, allowing forces to build in the other rooms.

OTOH, if the Heroes roll badly and/or screw around with Treasure, instead of killing Spawns, then take full advantage!


In 1 of the 4 games I've played as the consul, the heroes totally whiffed their attempts to kill the first spawn point. Coincidentally (or maybe ominously?) I manage to beat the heroes for the first time.

So you cannot really say if the 1st spawn point will go down. After all, there is a chance the consul can win the initiative and go first, and what he does then can dictate whether or not the heroes can destroy the first spawn point. I do have to say that smart heroes WILL go after it though, so as a consul my initial deployment will assume that it WILL get destroyed.


As I said, "pretty much guaranteed", versus when "Heroes roll badly", which is what you saw.

If the Heroes know what they're doing, and understand how the game is balanced, the first Spawn point really should drop on Turn 1, even if the Consul gets initiative.

And for the record, our first few games were brutal TPKs for Consul wins, not even reaching the Boss arrival.
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Jan Jensen
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I played a glorious game where I spawned the Rape-Beetle and Choke-Hound, won initiative and proceeded to set all heroes on fire and choke them. It was beautiful!

Welcome to DIE!

To actually answer OP. Yes, the first SP goes down in the first round. Nothing you can really do about it except minimizing your losses. Winning initiative does a huge difference though. Ironscales can put on aura, monsters can spread out making target decisions more difficult.
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Mike Bennett
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Just got the game and I'd love to chime in on what NOT to do. I was playing the Great and Evil Consul and I was running (2) Egg Clutch (1) Lava Whirl and (foolishly) (1 set) Shallow Grave.

I learned not to put the skeletons, who have bone pile, on the first spawn. The more astute of you, prolly guessed the Heroes mopped the floor with them and proceeded to ignore the Bone Piles. My boss was Van Drakk.

Needless to say it went poorly. I'm getting a second set of Van Drakk Mannor and I think the number of skeletons, plus two deaths (and two succubus, that I've got) will make them a lot better.

So my new plan is to run: (2 set) Shallow Grave (1) Lava Whirl, drop burny Beetle and his pal Choke Dawg and get the undead hordes ready behind them.

I call it burning undead.
 
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Robin Deign
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I'd be very interested to hear how running 2 sets of Shallow Grave went. Please regale us with your experience
 
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Mike Bennett
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Since posting my original thought I've gotten a lot of games under my belt and I'd argue that the skeletons are a match for the turtles any day.

I think shallow graves might be the best minions. But you have to think weird and get those useless boneheads killed and replaced with Mob having Rattle Bones. The necromancer is a key player using him to position death and the succubus and three or four troops is really good.

And in Arena? Forget it, that necromancer means you'll most likely go first and he plays like a second hero.

I'm working on a youtube show that will talk about the game in depth, both how to play and how to play well.

I agree with the other guides on the site now, mostly. But saying the skeletons are the worst is a little misleading. That said, the more you have the better they are.

 
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Steve B.
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philbuni wrote:
Since posting my original thought I've gotten a lot of games under my belt and I'd argue that the skeletons are a match for the turtles any day.

I think shallow graves might be the best minions. But you have to think weird and get those useless boneheads killed and replaced with Mob having Rattle Bones. The necromancer is a key player using him to position death and the succubus and three or four troops is really good.

And in Arena? Forget it, that necromancer means you'll most likely go first and he plays like a second hero.

I'm working on a youtube show that will talk about the game in depth, both how to play and how to play well.

I agree with the other guides on the site now, mostly. But saying the skeletons are the worst is a little misleading. That said, the more you have the better they are.


I think that ignoring the 'fix' of only 4 rattle bones instead of 6 would go a long way in making the graves useful. 4 is just useless, having 2 sets for 8 makes a big difference, but if you had 12 or even 10 rattle bones, it actually makes the Heroes want to step on bone piles to prevent resurrection.

But 1 set of shallow graves is still the worst possible group of mobs.
 
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Jonah Rees
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philbuni wrote:
Since posting my original thought I've gotten a lot of games under my belt and I'd argue that the skeletons are a match for the turtles any day.

I think shallow graves might be the best minions. But you have to think weird and get those useless boneheads killed and replaced with Mob having Rattle Bones. The necromancer is a key player using him to position death and the succubus and three or four troops is really good.

And in Arena? Forget it, that necromancer means you'll most likely go first and he plays like a second hero.

I'm working on a youtube show that will talk about the game in depth, both how to play and how to play well.

I agree with the other guides on the site now, mostly. But saying the skeletons are the worst is a little misleading. That said, the more you have the better they are.



But you also feed the heroes a lot of loot by doing this which isn't a good idea. A big part of the Consul's strategy is ensuring that the boss drops before the heroes are too geared up and feeding them easy to kill monsters is going to make your job harder at the end.
 
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Kiren Maelwulf
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While I think having more Rattle Bones could help, unfortunately it still leaves them with a mechanic that feeds the heroes loot in order to generate mob, whereas the Kobolds all have mob right from the start and synergize with different abilities and ranges to maximize the ability. If Rattle Bones didn’t move the loot tracker the mechanic may have made a bit more sense. As is, Dread Knights are the lynch-pin of the Shallow Graves, and while great, there are many ways to counter/prevent status effects.

I probably won’t buy another box of SG when they become available as I don’t see them being good for 5 hero games. 5 hero games generally have a lot more loot distribution and late game require maximizing monster attacks. Having to rely so heavily on a status effect from a single unit type to land late game hits seems detrimental against a bigger team that likely has more options available to remove status effects. If the SG can’t land and keep Fragile on, their Bone Heads will become as inefficient as their casters.

Simply looking at attacks and abilities, the SG do not measure up to Kobolds who not only all get mob but also get other abilities that directly aid in boosting the mob strategy, nor with Rocktops which get ranged area of effect attacks with higher than average attack as well as two other units that can regularly boost their attack past 3 blues.

I don’t know if SG are worse than 2 Dragon Clutch’s, as I haven’t tried that yet, but they certainly are objectively worse than the other monster groups currently available.
 
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Mike Bennett
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More is the key, with two sets of SG the heroes have to either let the Consul have bone piles or stay in the room longer to destroy them all. If they stomp out the piles the consul will just have more time to spawn deeper in the dungeon. With all 12 Rattle Bones (I've painted a few of my Turtles to look like Dry Bones and use them as proxy) the consul could have 24 reasons the heroes can't win.

I feel like if you look at the skeletons alone, yes they suck. When you combine them with the necromancer and the big boss that sucks without them, they can be really, really deadly. And two shallow graves means two magic 6 two red die attackers.

I don't even turn Von Drakk into Nocturne, he's way better used to pump up all the undead and finish off the last few heroes.

 
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