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Subject: Some questions not covered by previous post (in my understanding) rss

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Giuseppe Salvio
Italy
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I'm not a sailing expert and so after a first match race simulation game I have some doubts and the need to put these questions:

1) Are the start and finish lines to be intended as the downwind gate between the boat and the buoy or is the whole line not just the segment that goes across these two points?

2) Do yellow and blue tokens remain on their intersection points when a player's boat stop on them or do the player take them and remove from the board?

3) The rule of wind change that has to restore in the initial north direction in the case of a E-W die result after the point 2 of the bowline leg is not clear for me: I have to restore the north direction only if the result is W or even if the die result is E?

4)Penalty: I have understood that a boat can pay it during its normal turn so after it has finished its move the boat can spin 90degrees. Is it true? In such a case has the boat to respect always the same clock direction 90 after 90 ?

5)in the rulebook there is written that if a boat makes a move this has to be completely finished but on the same time that a player can skip his turn. Does it mean that in the case of broad reach either the player makes the complete move of two actions (movement and/or manoeuvre) or he skip completly the turn that is to say he can not make half move for example just movement or just manoeuvre?

6) Is the perimeter of the 25 intersections around the buoy to be intended as a line where the overlaps are resolved by the normal tack/leeward rules?

7) In case of a wind shadow during a 2 player match what happens if one of the two players does not have more the yellow token? Does the yellow taken remain on the board or it returns to the player if it is not more crossed?

Thanks

 
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Ted Groth
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1. The start/finish line is just the segment between boat and the buoy.

2. The yellow and blue tokens remain in place (except for yellow token placed due to the effect of wind shadow.)

3. I don't recall this one exactly, but I believe it is reset if either E or W because these are perpendicular to the direction of travel, and would unfairly favor sailboats on one side of the course.

4. The penalty is paid by completing a full 360 degrees, which will require several turns spent continuing in the same clock direction. Either direction is allowed to start, but you have to continue in that same direction for it to count. Also you must not impede the progress of other boats while paying your penalty, or you will get another penalty for that!

5. Ordinarily, you either skip you entire turn, or complete the entire turn. So for the Broad Reach, you need to first move then manoeuvre, you can't ordinarily just do one. There is an exception to this if the initial move is blocked by a permanent obstacle such as a buoy. ONLY in that case, the boat may just manoeuvre. Otherwise it would be stuck forever (until the wind changes.)

6. Normal tack/leeward rules apply OUTSIDE that perimeter. Boats on the perimeter (two points from the buoy) or inside it (so one point from the buoy) are instead bound by the special rules at the buoy.

7. The yellow tokens placed due to wind shadow are only temporary, and only affect the boat caught in the wind shadow. If the shadowed boat hits this temporary yellow token then it stops and loses the next turn, but the token it stops on is removed from the board. If instead the boat manoevres to a new direction, then the temporary tokens in the original direction are removed. So there should never be a need for more than two such tokens on the board for each shadowed boat. (I personally use home made tokens with the sail numbers of each boat on them for this purpose instead of using yellow tokens. Thst makes it easier to remember which are the temporary tokens that need to be removed, and which boat they affect)

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Giuseppe Salvio
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Tradewinds Ted wrote:
1. The start/finish line is just the segment between boat and the buoy.

2. The yellow and blue tokens remain in place (except for yellow token placed due to the effect of wind shadow.)

3. I don't recall this one exactly, but I believe it is reset if either E or W because these are perpendicular to the direction of travel, and would unfairly favor sailboats on one side of the course.

4. The penalty is paid by completing a full 360 degrees, which will require several turns spent continuing in the same clock direction. Either direction is allowed to start, but you have to continue in that same direction for it to count. Also you must not impede the progress of other boats while paying your penalty, or you will get another penalty for that!

5. Ordinarily, you either skip you entire turn, or complete the entire turn. So for the Broad Reach, you need to first move then manoeuvre, you can't ordinarily just do one. There is an exception to this if the initial move is blocked by a permanent obstacle such as a buoy. ONLY in that case, the boat may just manoeuvre. Otherwise it would be stuck forever (until the wind changes.)

6. Normal tack/leeward rules apply OUTSIDE that perimeter. Boats on the perimeter (two points from the buoy) or inside it (so one point from the buoy) are instead bound by the special rules at the buoy.

7. The yellow tokens placed due to wind shadow are only temporary, and only affect the boat caught in the wind shadow. If the shadowed boat hits this temporary yellow token then it stops and loses the next turn, but the token it stops on is removed from the board. If instead the boat manoevres to a new direction, then the temporary tokens in the original direction are removed. So there should never be a need for more than two such tokens on the board for each shadowed boat. (I personally use home made tokens with the sail numbers of each boat on them for this purpose instead of using yellow tokens. Thst makes it easier to remember which are the temporary tokens that need to be removed, and which boat they affect)


Hi Ted , thanks a lot for the prompt and clear answers.
Just further questions.
Regarding to answer 7, what does it happen if there is a yellow token in the point where a player has to put its starting token due to a wind cover? In such a case should the player pay twice the turn stop?
Regarding to answer 5 I made a uncorrect example but I have understood your answers so can you confirm that in case of beam reach (two moves) either you make both or you skip both?
Rearding to answer since you can pay 90° for each turn in clockwise I can immagine that if your move is always a movement and a manoeuvre and this is made with a 90° anticlockwise turn at the end you do not change your direction by compensating in each step the 90° penalty turning for four times. Is it correct?
Regarding to the Fig 14 of the rulebook I do not understand which boat is inner since they both are one intersection close to the buoy.
Moreover regarding the example of the same fig 14 why boat A can not (beam reach direction) move and manoeuvre 90° clockwise?
Finally it seems to me obvious the answer but I just would like to receive a confirmation: whatever is the wind direction, is the boat movement to be made always in the direction of the sailing point and not for example by side (example boats A and B in fig 10 can just move to the grey point and no to the one intersection to their right side (boat A and B) that is to say only forward according to their direction?

thanks

 
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Ted Groth
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gpippo70 wrote:
Regarding to answer 7, what does it happen if there is a yellow token in the point where a player has to put its starting token due to a wind cover? In such a case should the player pay twice the turn stop?
No, just stop once. the way I think of it is that no wind is no wind, you can't get less than that. whistle If the wind cover token is on top of a blue token however, the wind cover token takes precedence, and you still lose a turn. I think of that as it doesn't matter that the wind is strong if it is blocked. soblue
Quote:
Regarding to answer 5 I made a uncorrect example but I have understood your answers so can you confirm that in case of beam reach (two moves) either you make both or you skip both?
If I recall correctly, In the case of a beam reach you have the option to make two moves, or move and manoeuvre, or make two manoeuvres. In theory you need to do both, but in practice, the two manoeuvres can be collapsed into one, or you may move one and then make a 0 degreee manoeuvre.

Quote:
Rearding to answer since you can pay 90° for each turn in clockwise I can immagine that if your move is always a movement and a manoeuvre and this is made with a 90° anticlockwise turn at the end you do not change your direction by compensating in each step the 90° penalty turning for four times. Is it correct?
I'm not certain exactly what you are asking here.
To pay the penalty, you need to make a complete 360 degree rotation which will require several turns to complete. On each of those turns the rotation is made as part of the actions that are valid for the facing of the boat at the start of the turn. If your facing is close-hauled (on a bowline) then you can manoeuvre 45 or 90 degrees that turn. If you are on a beam reach then you can make up to two manoeuvres, each of which is 45 or 90 degrees, (or you can also move instead of one of those manoeuvres, but that will mean paying the penalty will take longer, since you won't turn as far.) If you are on a broad reach you first move forward one, then make a manoeuvre of 90 or 45 degrees. And so on, until you have completed the entire 360 degree penalty. Typically this takes four turns to complete, although it is possible to do it in three if the wind shifts just right.
Quote:
Regarding to the Fig 14 of the rulebook I do not understand which boat is inner since they both are one intersection close to the buoy.
Moreover regarding the example of the same fig 14 why boat A can not (beam reach direction) move and manoeuvre 90° clockwise?
Sorry, I don't have my rulebook with me to look at the diagrams, I'm just answering from memory. If I get a chance I'll try and answer in a few days, unless someone else answers first.
Quote:
Finally it seems to me obvious the answer but I just would like to receive a confirmation: whatever is the wind direction, is the boat movement to be made always in the direction of the sailing point and not for example by side (example boats A and B in fig 10 can just move to the grey point and no to the one intersection to their right side (boat A and B) that is to say only forward according to their direction?

thanks

Again not looking at the diagrams at the moment. But if I understand you correctly, the movements of the boats must only be forward in the direction the boat is facing, never sideways.
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