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Revolution: The Dutch Revolt 1568-1648» Forums » General

Subject: SOLVING THE PUZZLE rss

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Freddy Dekker
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Okay, I'm trying to learn this game.

I really like the board and the components, mind you some text on the map is tricky to read, but I think that ads to the flavour of the game.

So I've been told to simply play and it'll all become clear.
Yeah sure.

Now some things may get lost in translation, don't know if there is Dutch version but myne is English.

So I've set up the board and after a quick read it's sort of starting to make sense.

So turn 0

question 1: in section 5.1 they talk about playing pieces from out lined squares
What does outlined squeares mean, are this the squares with the names on them, the once that hold the support boxes?

They also talk about solid colored squares.
Okay, I see these in the Spanish treasre, solid yellow.
But does this also mean the solid white ones like the French support box or does white not count as a color.

Now I think I'm starting to get this so please hear me out to see if I'm thinking in the right direction or not.

So I now have to place my support units on the board.
Lets say I'm the nobles. This means I have French support and support from the Emperor. In the box it tells me where I can use these.

So as I see things, but I might overthink this, I can use my nobles in the French support box without even giving it further thought.

But if I use the nobles in the emperor box that means that the Catholics might seize the opportunity to take over that support box, so in fact I am sort of forced to keep on noble in there at all times to prevent catholic intervention.

Now am I right in thinking these support boxes are just some place to park you units that you can not use any place right now?
It's not as if these boxes are filled by magic, you have to fill them yourself right?

One more thing I've been searching the book for is these command boxes.
Can't find anything other than the name, but as I'm working front to back, I may not have found it just yet.

Hope you can answer my questions as I really want to like this one.
 
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Jan Tuijp
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There is a Dutch version of the rules and its [filepage=20254]here on the geek[/filepage].

 
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Freddy Dekker
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Bedankt Jan,

Nu zou ik er met de engelse regels ook wel uit gekomen zijn, maar het zijn net die kleine dingetjes die je anders kunt begrijpen en die je dan voor de zekerheid weer vragen moet.

Outlined squares, zou ik dus als omlijnde vakken zien en daar heb je zoveel van.
Terwijl omlijnde vakken kleurloos, toch weer heel wat duidelijker over komt. Verderop staat dan wel weer gekleurde vakken, maar tot nu toe was wit ook altijd nog een kleur, ik begrijp nu dat ze dat hier anders zien.

Sloeg dat verhaal over die 'support' vakken ergens op, dat ik het idee had dat je sommige beter bemand kan laten, zodat een andere groep ze niet over kan nemen? of was ik te veel aan het door denken.



 
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Jan Tuijp
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sagitar wrote:
Sloeg dat verhaal over die 'support' vakken ergens op, dat ik het idee had dat je sommige beter bemand kan laten, zodat een andere groep ze niet over kan nemen? of was ik te veel aan het door denken.


Dat hangt er van af met hoeveel spelers je bent. Met z'n tweeën wordt dat probleem veel kleiner, aangezien er dan twee facties altijd samenwerken. Maar er zijn nog andere redenen om stukken al dan niet in de steunvakken te houden en dat is helegaar afhankelijk van beurt en fase.

 
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Freddy Dekker
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Momenteel speel ik solo met alles om het eerst zelf te leren.
 
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Jan Tuijp
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Wow.

 
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Freddy Dekker
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waaruit ik dus af leid dat dit wel eens te veel hooi op de vork kan zijn?
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Jan Tuijp
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De beste omschrijving van dit spel die IK ooit gehoord heb, is multi player chess. Da's dus best een uitdaging, ja...

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Steve Bachman
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sagitar wrote:
Okay, I'm trying to learn this game.

I really like the board and the components, mind you some text on the map is tricky to read, but I think that ads to the flavour of the game.

So I've been told to simply play and it'll all become clear.
Yeah sure.

Now some things may get lost in translation, don't know if there is Dutch version but myne is English.

So I've set up the board and after a quick read it's sort of starting to make sense.

So turn 0

question 1: in section 5.1 they talk about playing pieces from out lined squares
What does outlined squeares mean, are this the squares with the names on them, the once that hold the support boxes?

They also talk about solid colored squares.
Okay, I see these in the Spanish treasre, solid yellow.
But does this also mean the solid white ones like the French support box or does white not count as a color.

Outlined support boxes are those without any color (white), solid colored ones are completely filled with a player color. White does not count for a color.

sagitar wrote:
Now I think I'm starting to get this so please hear me out to see if I'm thinking in the right direction or not.

So I now have to place my support units on the board.
Lets say I'm the nobles. This means I have French support and support from the Emperor. In the box it tells me where I can use these.

So as I see things, but I might overthink this, I can use my nobles in the French support box without even giving it further thought.

But if I use the nobles in the emperor box that means that the Catholics might seize the opportunity to take over that support box, so in fact I am sort of forced to keep on noble in there at all times to prevent catholic intervention.

Now am I right in thinking these support boxes are just some place to park you units that you can not use any place right now?
It's not as if these boxes are filled by magic, you have to fill them yourself right?

Player order makes a difference. Often, it would be better going later as you have more information to act on. However, where limited opportunities exist, going first may be advantageous. If the Nobility went before the Catholics, they could freely empty their support boxes and then refill them with new units should they want to keep the Catholics out.

Sometimes, though, the other faction who could use the support box has other places to use their resources and may leave the support boxes empty. Either way, the support boxes only get filled during the New Units phase.

Also, the support boxes allow you to bring units into areas where you may not otherwise be able to. It allows you to establish a new presence, as well as reinforce an existing position.

sagitar wrote:
One more thing I've been searching the book for is these command boxes.
Can't find anything other than the name, but as I'm working front to back, I may not have found it just yet.

Refer to the illustration at the lower left of page 3. The Command Block is labeled, and described in the text above. I'm not sure where the reference to Command Boxes is, but they are the boxes inside of a Command Block where the armies reside.

sagitar wrote:
Hope you can answer my questions as I really want to like this one.

Hope I was able to answer them clearly and it helps you to learn and enjoy this wonderful game.
 
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Freddy Dekker
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Okay, making progress, but I have to check if I understood the neutral rule.
You fill up EVERY province with neutrals right?
-1 the province maximum.
 
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Steve Bachman
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sagitar wrote:
Okay, making progress, but I have to check if I understood the neutral rule.
You fill up EVERY province with neutrals right?
-1 the province maximum.

Every province is correct. Turn 0, province limit -1; full turns to the province limit.
 
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Freddy Dekker
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Thanks for the quick confirmation
 
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Freddy Dekker
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Okay next question.

It concerns 5.3 conflict.

Apparently if you are the first to move you can move the counters of others out the way and move in your self.

Now if you do so with a town, you boot them other out.

But in a city you can have units of both factions.
So does this mean you have a choice to kick them out or not, or does it mean you simply ad yours to the city.

Now next players turn to move.
So the rule says you must respect things that have been moved so when nr.1 takes over a town the other can't remove him again.

But now... say player 1 allready had a unit in a town at the start.
So does this mean that player two can remover this unit.
I mean it says respect what has been moved, but as this one was allready there and didn't move.

see my point?
 
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Steve Bachman
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sagitar wrote:
Okay next question.

It concerns 5.3 conflict.

Apparently if you are the first to move you can move the counters of others out the way and move in your self.

Now if you do so with a town, you boot them other out.

But in a city you can have units of both factions.
So does this mean you have a choice to kick them out or not, or does it mean you simply ad yours to the city.

Now next players turn to move.
So the rule says you must respect things that have been moved so when nr.1 takes over a town the other can't remove him again.

But now... say player 1 allready had a unit in a town at the start.
So does this mean that player two can remover this unit.
I mean it says respect what has been moved, but as this one was allready there and didn't move.

see my point?

You're referring to 5.6 Movement within Provinces. This has already been discussed in detail in more than one thread, but basically you can't touch the pieces of factions with a greater presence than your own. Ties are done in current turn order.
 
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Jan Tuijp
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sagitar wrote:
So does this mean you have a choice to kick them out or not, or does it mean you simply ad yours to the city.


The latter. Just add them to the city.

Quote:
I mean it says respect what has been moved, but as this one was allready there and didn't move. see my point?


The first player can do whatever he wants with towns. The second player has to respect the pieces of the first player and so on.

 
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Freddy Dekker
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Yeah you are right Steve, I discovered later on I got number confused.

Sorry for asking the Obvious, but it seems easier to simply ask then to try and find out if it's been aksed allready in the 22 pages on this game.

Thanks Jan, see, made my first mistake there, only because I managed to missunderstand in Dutch.
When it said, don't bother moved pieces, I reckoned that it really meant physically moved, but so it means, don't mess with those who went before you.

Okay, got it now.

Now in the mean time I've moved on to the ALLIANCE OF CITIZENS CHART, which to me seems an odd contraption.
I can't understand why you put the counters on the 3rd of 4rd spot or whatever it says. I've now got nobels and reformers in the section that says catholics.
Do these markers move to the left or right at all?

But maybe that'll become clear later one, you must forgive if I ask about things that are discussed later in the rules.
I did have a quick look to see if there was more on it, but couldn't find it.


I'm also confused by the NAMUR chart, [and I know there are more like that, but this one happens to be in front of me] which apparenlty has 0.4 as the VP vallue. I understand this is the vallue at the end of the game, so does that mean that it's without any vallue during the game?
And how do you add .4 to the score track.

Well a lot of new questions and I hope you'll be kind enough to help me out yet again.
 
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Jan Tuijp
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sagitar wrote:
But maybe that'll become clear later one, you must forgive if I ask about things that are discussed later in the rules.
I did have a quick look to see if there was more on it, but couldn't find it.


A lot of mechanics in the game will become clear after two turns. Then you'll begin to appreciate the delicate balance between money and pieces.

Quote:
so does that mean that it's without any value during the game?

Yep.

Quote:
And how do you add .4 to the score track.

You don't. Its just for the final reckoning.
 
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Freddy Dekker
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Oh dear, if even Jan cam't explain the citizen chart, what chance have I.
 
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Jan Tuijp
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sagitar wrote:
Oh dear, if even Jan cam't explain the citizen chart, what chance have I.


I can, but like a lot of things in this game, it will become clear once you play. There are a lot of mechanics that counter eachother. For example, maybe you've put a lot of resources into capturing a city, only to find out that in a subsequent phase you don't have enough resources left to prevent the city marker from going into the wrong direction on the Citizen Chart (where it will enable your adversary to replace ALL your pieces in the city). Or maybe you do have the resources, but you're just in the wrong turn order to effectively counter your opponents bid.

If you neglect the Citizen Table and don't spent enough money to protect your influence, sooner or later you'll be stabbed in the back by an opponent.

 
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Freddy Dekker
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There's obviously a lot in it.

Like with the taxes.
At the moment the few provinces that are owned don't pay anything cause the vallue is 0.5 = 0

Now the cities, this seems complicated cause you can decide if you want 1,2 or 3 taks. Now it seems logical to take all you can get i.e. 3.
But I reckon at one point - which I'm yet to find out - this greed is going to be regreted.

I suspect you'll find yourself out of resourches when you need them most.

Now another thing that seems od to me is:

at one point you get new resources and you put them in support boxes, from which you than move them to your map, our in your treasury and part of me thinks, why not simply put them where you want directly, but I assume that would spoil the flavour of the game.

I'm probably wrong but I feel that the resources in the support boxes should end up there in a way that is out of control of the players.

See my point? You get resources from the different support boxes, but you yourself decided which box supports you.
It would maybe make things very complicated but would it not have been better for the game to have some kind of mechanism that decides whether anybody supports you.

So you get support from the emperor, but you do not know if you get it in advance, rather than knowing he will cause you just put a counter in the box.

But possibly I'm absolutely wrong, am over thinking things and you'll now tell me that in a funny way this actually is what happens.
 
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Jan Tuijp
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Quote:
I suspect you'll find yourself out of resourches when you need them most.


Yep.

Quote:
at one point you get new resources and you put them in support boxes, from which you than move them to your map, our in your treasury and part of me thinks, why not simply put them where you want directly


The support boxes represent influence from outside the board. In game terms it's a mechanism that allows certain factions access to areas or resources that are normally out of reach but are essential for that factions means of attaining Victory Points. In that respect, the boxes are both an opportunity for that faction as a threat for other players.

 
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Freddy Dekker
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Okay, thanks, new you'd have a logical explanation.

But it seems a bit strange that after reading only one faction can occupy a box at the same time, it than turns out catholics and habsburgs can both together occupy the spanish treasury box.

Although the way you explained it I now understand.
I assumed them both to be spanish, but I guess they are not, they are just both supported by Spain.

Now I've been having a go at reading the army thing.
The boxes are still a bit weird.
I understand the Arrow means the also influence the box the arrow points to and can travel there.
Just one box at a time but doens't this mean that given time they basically can go all over the map?

Now allready in turn one I've spotted I made a mistake.
I should have allowed for the habsburg treasury to.. well excist really.
As I didn't, well live and learn, that means the two armies on the board are unsupported and become abandoned.

So they now must loot a town or a resource.
This gave me problem at first in Flanders unit I realised Tournai is part of Flanders to{map is a bit 'confusing'in parts.

Tournai? you'll ask.
Well yeah the reformers are in Tournai, if not the habsburgers would have to loot the catholic resource present in the province and that just seemed weird.
Now am I right in assuming that for want of any other factions in an area, abandoned armies are supposed to loot the own faction?





 
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Jan Tuijp
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sagitar wrote:
Now I've been having a go at reading the army thing.
The boxes are still a bit weird. I understand the Arrow means the also influence the box the arrow points to and can travel there. Just one box at a time but doens't this mean that given time they basically can go all over the map?


Provided you pay them regularly, yes.

Quote:
Now am I right in assuming that for want of any other factions in an area, abandoned armies are supposed to loot the own faction?


It is a given that abandoned armies misbehave. History is very clear on that. cool

 
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Freddy Dekker
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I'm getting there but I'm still wondering about a few things.

now 6.14 says you may remove resources of other players from a city.
further on it says resources of more factions may occupy the same city.

It's clear and not contradicting, but I don't really understand why you would or would not remove another faction.

I'd say kick them out cause that way the city is yours.
but now thinking about it [and I admit I skipped that part cause it was not yet relevant] is there an advantage to having more factions in a city concerning sieges?


Also I get the influence of the Allegiance chart.
But I don't really understand the final bit where they make the neccesary adjustments to cities.

I suspect I have an idea asto what they mean, but an example would be nice.
 
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Jan Tuijp
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sagitar wrote:
It's clear and not contradicting, but I don't really understand why you would or would not remove another faction.

I'd say kick them out cause that way the city is yours.
but now thinking about it [and I admit I skipped that part cause it was not yet relevant] is there an advantage to having more factions in a city concerning sieges?


Not really, no. But to take control of a city, you need to have an absolute majority. So you can really get very unpleasant to other players by just investing enough in a city to keep the city card and its bonuses out of their hands.

Quote:
Also I get the influence of the Allegiance chart.
But I don't really understand the final bit where they make the neccesary adjustments to cities.


I'm not sure what you mean. What is it you don't understand?

 
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