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Subject: Expose Cards... What do you like to do? rss

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Alejandro G.
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Hello.

I've noticed in our meta that when cards are exposed with "Infiltration" or "Satellite Uplink" some of our players will leave the card face up for the duration of the game until it's either accessed by me, when running, or if they do something with it themselves. When I corp, I prefer to show them for a few moments until they are satisfied then flip it back over.

What do you all like to do when playing F2F? Do you think there are disadvantages or advantages that favor either method more than the other? I'd like to hear your thoughts because I honestly don't see the rules addressing this at all.

Edit: Thanks for finding it!
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michael crow
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
Hello.

I've noticed in our meta that when cards are exposed with "Infiltration" or "Satellite Uplink" some of our players will leave the card face up for the duration of the game until it's either accessed by me, when running, or if they do something with it themselves. When I corp, I prefer to show them for a few moments until they are satisfied then flip it back over.

What do you all like to do when playing F2F? Do you think there are disadvantages or advantages that favor either method more than the other? I'd like to hear your thoughts because I honestly don't see the rules addressing this at all.



I flip it back over to make them have to remember what it was.
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By the rules, they should be revealed and then returned to their previous game state (usually unrezzed, unless it came from HQ or R&D). If you leave them face up, you then have to remember that they have not yet been rezzed and their rez cost has not been paid.

Best to return them to their previous game state. If I'm playing a friendly game, I'll always allow a player to look back at a card they exposed earlier in the game. I sometimes still do this in tournaments, if the player simply wants to remember what stats are on the card.

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Justin
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Flip it over, and mark it with something to show that it's only exposed and not paid.
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William Frank
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
Hello.

I've noticed in our meta that when cards are exposed with "Infiltration" or "Satellite Uplink" some of our players will leave the card face up for the duration of the game until it's either accessed by me, when running, or if they do something with it themselves. When I corp, I prefer to show them for a few moments until they are satisfied then flip it back over.

What do you all like to do when playing F2F? Do you think there are disadvantages or advantages that favor either method more than the other? I'd like to hear your thoughts because I honestly don't see the rules addressing this at all.



Rules page 22:

"An exposed card is revealed to all players, and then returned to its previous state."
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Alejandro G.
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astroglide wrote:
Flip it over, and mark it with something to show that it's only exposed and not paid.


Justin, that's what some of our local players do. They'll use a token of some sort to remind us both.

(Usually a Brain Damage Token, that way no one thinks it has a virus counter or femme fatale token on it, haha)
 
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B C Z
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I follow the rules on page 22:

Expose:
Some effects expose one or more cards. Generally, only unrezzed installed cards can be exposed, unless an ability specifies otherwise. An exposed card is revealed to all players, and then returned to its previous state. If multiple cards are exposed by one effect, they are considered to be exposed simultaneously.

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João Almeida
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I write on a paper the cards I exposed.
 
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Alejandro G.
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Thanks for the refresher, pulled out the rule book and looked at it now.
 
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Alejandro G.
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Hraklea wrote:
I write on a paper the cards I exposed.


Does anyone complain about that? Just curious.
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Ben Asher
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Typically I'll flip the card for the runner, allow them to study it to their satisfaction, and then put it back in whatever state it was. In a tournament setting, I would generally expect my opponent to remember which cards s/he had exposed, and what those cards are.
 
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João Almeida
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
Does anyone complain about that? Just curious.


Not at all. As far as I know, that's a common practice in Magic: the Gathering championships, when a spell allows you to look at the opponent's hand.
 
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David Jensen
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I don't think there should be anything to indicate which card is which. Once installed knowing which is what can sometimes tip off the runner of what to access first. =( Rare, but it does happen.
 
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Palpster
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
Hraklea wrote:
I write on a paper the cards I exposed.


Does anyone complain about that? Just curious.


There was a thread about this a little while ago, although question there was about official tournament rules on taken notes. Some people were okay with it, a lot were quite strongly against it. In the end I believe someone asked FFG and the official tournment rules now state that taking notes isn't allowed if I'm not mistaken. (If i am, someone will correct me I'm sure)

Edit: i believe this is the thread: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/938128/is-taking-notes-d...
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Hraklea wrote:
xpiredsodapop wrote:
Does anyone complain about that? Just curious.


Not at all. As far as I know, that's a common practice in Magic: the Gathering championships, when a spell allows you to look at the opponent's hand.


I think taking notes is against FFG tournament rules.
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Alejandro G.
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Palpster wrote:
xpiredsodapop wrote:
Hraklea wrote:
I write on a paper the cards I exposed.


Does anyone complain about that? Just curious.


There was a thread about this a little while ago, although question there was about official tournament rules on taken notes. Some people were okay with it, a lot were quite strongly against it. In the end I believe someone asked FFG and the official tournment rules now state that taking notes isn't allowed if I'm not mistaken. (If i am, someone will correct me I'm sure)


LOL... I remember it now. You're right.

xpiredsodapop wrote:
But you can use your noodle! No one can take your brain away from you!


http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/946471/is-it-ok-to-take-note...
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aHein wrote:
I think taking notes is against FFG tournament rules.


I believe you, but I wonder if FFG has any good reason for that.
 
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Hraklea wrote:
aHein wrote:
I think taking notes is against FFG tournament rules.


I believe you, but I wonder if FFG has any good reason for that.


Probably has something to do with time limits already being tight for some games - additional note taking (excessive or otherwise) would only add to games going to time.

That's purely a guess though... I can imagine cards like Snitch would add a few minutes to most games.
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Brian Moore
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Hraklea wrote:
aHein wrote:
I think taking notes is against FFG tournament rules.


I believe you, but I wonder if FFG has any good reason for that.


Because failing to pay enough attention to remember what cards you exposed and didn't can lead to bad play decisions. It's like those memory games that young children play. It's not a memory game if people write it down.
 
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Niil945 wrote:
It's not a memory game if people write it down.


Exactly, and Netrunner is not one of those memory games that young children play.
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Palpster wrote:
xpiredsodapop wrote:
Hraklea wrote:
I write on a paper the cards I exposed.


Does anyone complain about that? Just curious.


There was a thread about this a little while ago,


Please refer to that discussion rather than starting it here again.

I usually flip it over, then a few seconds later flip it back. But if you're playing a casual game, you can do whatever you want.
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Brian Moore
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Hraklea wrote:
Niil945 wrote:
It's not a memory game if people write it down.


Exactly, and Netrunner is not one of those memory games that young children play.


Expose is not permanently revealed but inactive. There's a reason expose and peek are two different mechanics in Octgn. One does it the way the rules state to do it and is aptly named the effect. The other just lets you look at a face down card whenever you want and isn't part of the mechanics of the game. Considering the ruling that notes cannot be taken during tournament play I don't think there's any question that FFG expects players to remember what they expose. If you want to disregard that particular element of gameplay in casual gameplay because it's too hard be my guest.
 
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João Almeida
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Niil945 wrote:
Considering the ruling that notes cannot be taken during tournament play I don't think there's any question that FFG expects players to remember what they expose.


I already accepted that FFG expects people to remember what they exposed, what I'm saying is that I don't see a good reason for that.

Niil945 wrote:
If you want to disregard that particular element of gameplay in casual gameplay because it's too hard be my guest.


How do you go from "I believe this rule should not be like that" to "It's too hard for me to remember the cards I exposed"? When did I say that I have memory issues? Just because I disagree with a rule it doesn't mean I'm unable to follow it.
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Patrick Jamet
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astroglide wrote:
Flip it over, and mark it with something to show that it's only exposed and not paid.

Why would you do that ?
The card returns to its previous state which is unrezzed and unexposed. Isn't it ?
Unless your opponent allows you, you may not look at it again without another game effect.
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Brian Moore
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Hraklea wrote:
I already accepted that FFG expects people to remember what they exposed, what I'm saying is that I don't see a good reason for that.

How do you go from "I believe this rule should not be like that" to "It's too hard for me to remember the cards I exposed"? When did I say that I have memory issues? Just because I disagree with a rule it doesn't mean I'm unable to follow it.


I was just reciprocating your attitude with the flippant response that it wasn't a child's memory game. Your response to me wasn't, "I know that, but I want to know why." I see your question as not having value. It's a rule because it's a rule. I don't have anything constructive to add to this discussion so I'll just bow out now.
 
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