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Subject: A couple of clarifications, if you could rss

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Jesse Vandover
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I would like clarifications on a couple points, if anyone could help me. I will post my questions, and then what I think the answer is and why.

When can you use Personal Workshop's ability to pay credits to remove counters? I know you can use it when advancing on ICE etc, I guess more specifically I would like to know if I am tagged, and the corp trashes PW, can I install programs off of it in response? I think you can, I don't see why not.

Do viruses (like Medium) get their counters before you access cards? I think yes, because it gets the counter on completion of a successful run, and you cannot access the cards until the run is complete.

Can you use multiple datasuckers on the same ICE, and can you use multiple counters off of the same datasucker on the same ICE? I think you can, again I can't find anything contrary.

I have read about using multiple icebreakers in a single ICE encounter. Can anybody provide an example this might be useful/cost-effective?

E3 Feedback Implants. What are they good for other than the HB ICE that allows you to spend clicks to get by the subroutines? I don;t see another immediate use.

Thanks for reading, I am having a hell of a fun time reading these forums, and learning/playing the game!
 
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James W
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Dashakan wrote:

When can you use Personal Workshop's ability to pay credits to remove counters? I know you can use it when advancing on ICE etc, I guess more specifically I would like to know if I am tagged, and the corp trashes PW, can I install programs off of it in response? I think you can, I don't see why not.


You can use Personal Workshop at any time that you are allowed to use Paid Abilities. See the Turn Flowchart in the FAQ.

You can not use PW in response to it being trashed, but you do have a window between the point when you were tagged and before it's trashed. If you decline to use PW and the Corp announces that they are trashing PW, then you have already missed your chance.

Dashakan wrote:

Do viruses (like Medium) get their counters before you access cards? I think yes, because it gets the counter on completion of a successful run, and you cannot access the cards until the run is complete.


They get their counters when their condition is satisfied. In this case, the condition that is to be met is when the Run is deemed Successful which occurs before Accessing cards. Note that cards are accessed after the Run is deemed Successful but before the Run ends, which is what I think you mean, but your language is loose.

Again, refer to the appropriate Flowchart in the FAQ.

Dashakan wrote:

Can you use multiple datasuckers on the same ICE, and can you use multiple counters off of the same datasucker on the same ICE? I think you can, again I can't find anything contrary.


Yes you can. This is a paid ability and you can use your paid abilities as often as you want during the appropriate windows.

Dashakan wrote:

I have read about using multiple icebreakers in a single ICE encounter. Can anybody provide an example this might be useful/cost-effective?


You can use Wyrm to lower the strength of a piece of Ice so that you can interact with it using a different Icebreaker that cannot increase its own strength.

Dashakan wrote:

E3 Feedback Implants. What are they good for other than the HB ICE that allows you to spend clicks to get by the subroutines? I don;t see another immediate use.


At the moment, this is the most effective use. There are probably very situational uses if you have an Icebreaker that costs more than 1 credit to break a subroutine.

Dashakan wrote:

Thanks for reading, I am having a hell of a fun time reading these forums, and learning/playing the game!


It's an amazing game. =)
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Merric Blackman
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Quote:
When can you use Personal Workshop's ability to pay credits to remove counters? I know you can use it when advancing on ICE etc, I guess more specifically I would like to know if I am tagged, and the corp trashes PW, can I install programs off of it in response? I think you can, I don't see why not.


Erm... it's complicated. The basic rule is that the only abilities that can be used during the resolution of other effects are ones that have "prevent" or "avoid" in their text. Check the rules for Timing Priority on page 21 of the rulebook.

Quote:
Do viruses (like Medium) get their counters before you access cards? I think yes, because it gets the counter on completion of a successful run, and you cannot access the cards until the run is complete.


The run is considered successful before you access cards, so yes, they gain the counters before you access cards. Check the Access Phase rules on page 18 of the rulebook.

Quote:
Can you use multiple datasuckers on the same ICE, and can you use multiple counters off of the same datasucker on the same ICE? I think you can, again I can't find anything contrary.


Yes, you can.

Quote:
E3 Feedback Implants. What are they good for other than the HB ICE that allows you to spend clicks to get by the subroutines? I don;t see another immediate use.


Some icebreakers may require 2 or more credits to break each subroutine. E3 Feedback Implants makes this cheaper.

Cheers,
Merric
 
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Brian Moore
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kingjames01 wrote:
Dashakan wrote:
I have read about using multiple icebreakers in a single ICE encounter. Can anybody provide an example this might be useful/cost-effective?


You can use Wyrm to lower the strength of a piece of Ice so that you can interact with it using a different Icebreaker that cannot increase its own strength.


Just a tiny clarification here. King is right, I just don't want you to get a misconception about Wyrm. Any Icebreaker that has the appropriate strength can interact with the Ice in question. Too many people think that Wyrm can just reduce the strength of Ice it encounters. You have to boost Wyrm to the strength of the ice and then reduce it. This can happen if you have a lot of money and want to use, say, a Mimic to break an Archer, but it would cost Wyrm 5 to get to strength, 3 to reduce to 3, then 4 for Mimic to break the 4 subs, which is still cheaper than reducing it all the way to 0 for Wyrm to break it.
 
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Jesse Vandover
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Thanks for the responses, good to know what's going on!
 
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T.J. Condon
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Niil945 wrote:
kingjames01 wrote:
Dashakan wrote:
I have read about using multiple icebreakers in a single ICE encounter. Can anybody provide an example this might be useful/cost-effective?


You can use Wyrm to lower the strength of a piece of Ice so that you can interact with it using a different Icebreaker that cannot increase its own strength.


Just a tiny clarification here. King is right, I just don't want you to get a misconception about Wyrm. Any Icebreaker that has the appropriate strength can interact with the Ice in question. Too many people think that Wyrm can just reduce the strength of Ice it encounters. You have to boost Wyrm to the strength of the ice and then reduce it. This can happen if you have a lot of money and want to use, say, a Mimic to break an Archer, but it would cost Wyrm 5 to get to strength, 3 to reduce to 3, then 4 for Mimic to break the 4 subs, which is still cheaper than reducing it all the way to 0 for Wyrm to break it.


Wyrm's actual "breaking" ability costs 3 per sub (of a 0-strength ice). So doing it with just Wyrm would cost 5 (to boost Wyrm) + 6 (to drop Archer's strength) + 12 (4x break).

In that situation... yeah, you want E3 Feedback Implants. Or a Parasite on the Archer. I used to run Wyrms in my Noize deck for just that reason: tearing down the big stuff NOW. A Trick/Commercialization deck losing their big beastie in one run is always fun.
 
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Liam
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Moved from General to Rules

I see you're in good hands.
 
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