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Subject: The PERFECT wargame rss

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Arjan Schuthof
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Zandvoort
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As an avid reader of hundreds of reviews, posts and comments on wargames, it puzzles me that seemingly the perfect game still has to be invented. Designers and developers spent many months perfecting their game, yet it seems that something is lacking always and creating fog: be it the clarity of the rules, componenents, visual aspects, gameplay, historicity, 'feel', chrome issues, etc,

Does THE perfect game exist ?
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Eric Lai
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Short answer is no. Also perfection is subjective and relative term that is different from different player's perspective, so in this respect there can be no perfect games.

There are several games that are at the pinnacle in the Genre though and come close, like The Civil War for ACW.
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Will (JR) Todd
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schuthof wrote:
As an avid reader of hundreds of reviews, posts and comments on wargames, it puzzles me that seemingly the perfect game still has to be invented. Designers and developers spent many months perfecting their game, yet it seems that something is lacking always and creating fog: be it the clarity of the rules, componenents, visual aspects, gameplay, historicity, 'feel', chrome issues, etc,

Does THE perfect game exist ?


No. Perfection is a road, not a destination.
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Jan van der Laan
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Hidalgo wrote:
No. Perfection is a road, not a destination.
Behold, that is a wise statement!
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Darrell Hanning
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Perfection is a pursuit. As a goal, every half of the remaining distance to it takes twice as much effort as the last increment, so it can never actually be reached with anything less than an infinite amount of effort.
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Edward Pundyk
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DarrellKH wrote:
Perfection is a pursuit. As a goal, every half of the remaining distance to it takes twice as much effort as the last increment, so it can never actually be reached with anything less than an infinite amount of effort.



You're not fooling anybody. Zeno's paradox was refuted long ago.
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Darrell Hanning
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fightinlegalist1 wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
Perfection is a pursuit. As a goal, every half of the remaining distance to it takes twice as much effort as the last increment, so it can never actually be reached with anything less than an infinite amount of effort.



You're not fooling anybody. Zeno's paradox was refuted long ago.


Only for measuring progress toward a physical location - not for measuring progress toward a philosophical objective.
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Russ Williams
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schuthof wrote:
As an avid reader of hundreds of reviews, posts and comments on wargames, it puzzles me that seemingly the perfect game still has to be invented.

It is so very puzzling indeed.

After all, people have already created the perfect novel, the perfect movie, the perfect song, the perfect painting, the perfect poem, the perfect food, the perfect cure for cancer, the perfect computer, the perfect city, the perfect government, the perfect economic system, the perfect religion, ... What's delaying the creation of the perfect wargame?
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Edward Pundyk
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DarrellKH wrote:
fightinlegalist1 wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
Perfection is a pursuit. As a goal, every half of the remaining distance to it takes twice as much effort as the last increment, so it can never actually be reached with anything less than an infinite amount of effort.



You're not fooling anybody. Zeno's paradox was refuted long ago.


Only for measuring progress toward a physical location - not for measuring progress toward a philosophical objective.


Then I guess you haven't read my latest publication: "Refuting Zeno's Paradox as it Applies to Philosophical Objectives" (Oxford: Oxford University Press) 2013.
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Nothing's purely perfect, but for me, this is as close as any game I've played: Fighting Formations: Grossdeutschland Motorized Infantry Division
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schuthof wrote:
...

Does THE perfect game exist ?


Generally, (war)games are not designed to be “perfect”, but to be “appealing” (in some way). (War)game design is like writing books (on war(fare)): the author has a certain concept in mind which he hopes will ultimately come to fruition in the final product, and be appealing to certain people. Hopefully most authors will strive for perfection in the sense of quality assurance (QA), but that is very hard to attain. But, indeed there are (obvious) differences in QA, and in that sense, perfection. This, logically, cannot be puzzling as there are so many variables (personal effort, time and money constraints, and so on, this list could be endless).

What remains - fully in agreement with Garfink’s previous post - is that “perfection” is in the eye of the beholder.

So, what do you mean by “perfect”?
 
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M·ANTONIVS·M·F·M·N
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Moshe Callen
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schuthof wrote:
Does THE perfect game exist ?

No. it doesn't.

There is a saying in my culture: "The perfect is the enemy of the good." If one pursues that which is perfect, one ends up rejecting that which is good.
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Martyn Smith
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IMHO we are as likely to find the 'perfect game' as we are to find the 'perfect fruit' or the 'perfect person'... i.e. we're not going to!

'Perfection' as an aspiration or ideal is (again IMHO - which is the ONLY opinion we can give on such issues - IMHO... ) by definition entirely subjective.

That doesn't mean that I am not after The Perfect Game, it's just that this quest is tempered by the experience of life in other regards which has taught me that if I am about 70% happy with something/someone that is about the best I can EVER hope for.

This is not a cynical or negative comment, but rather a realistic and honest one that means I'll continue to buy and sell games imagining that I'll never attain 'perfection' but still secretly hoping to be proved wrong...

My two cents.
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p55carroll
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whac3 wrote:
There is a saying in my culture: "The perfect is the enemy of the good." If one pursues that which is perfect, one ends up rejecting that which is good.

Hmm ... that doesn't sound so bad. You keep the good, I get the perfect. Deal!
 
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p55carroll
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Well, maybe not a perfect wargame, but there is a Perfect General.
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Moshe Callen
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Patrick Carroll wrote:
whac3 wrote:
There is a saying in my culture: "The perfect is the enemy of the good." If one pursues that which is perfect, one ends up rejecting that which is good.

Hmm ... that doesn't sound so bad. You keep the good, I get the perfect. Deal!

When you find the perfect, show it to me.
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Darrell Hanning
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russ wrote:
schuthof wrote:
As an avid reader of hundreds of reviews, posts and comments on wargames, it puzzles me that seemingly the perfect game still has to be invented.

It is so very puzzling indeed.

After all, people have already created the perfect novel, the perfect movie, the perfect song, the perfect painting, the perfect poem, the perfect food, the perfect cure for cancer, the perfect computer, the perfect city, the perfect government, the perfect economic system, the perfect religion, ... What's delaying the creation of the perfect wargame?


Wow. That's what I was going to write, first, then I decided to take a different tack. Strange.
 
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What's the deal with board games?
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TonyClifton wrote:

HA HA HA IT'S FUNNY HE SAID CASE BLUE HA HA HA
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Lowell Drake
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Many years ago my friend and I thought we'd found "the perfect wargame." For a time I only played THAT game and its expansions. It was mesmerizing. And then I moved on, and the search resumed. That game was Squad Leader.
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Enrico Viglino
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Go comes as close as anything ever will.

See, it depends on what you mean by 'perfect'. From your post,
it seems you mean one for which no additional effort could help
(and presumably is very good). I'd say given that, there are quite
a few - outside Go, Chess, Backgammon, Bridge. Simple games which
developed over a fairly long time. I wouldn't expect more complex
games to achieve this kind of perfection.
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Charles Vasey
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calandale wrote:
Go comes as close as anything ever will.



It sucks, the artwork is so minimalist!
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Mike Hoyt

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I expect my wargames to cover far too diverse a range for any one game to be "perfect".

My favorite Tactical game does not scratch the Strategic itch.

Games about WWII don't help when I want to do Modern, or Ancients.

Land games are great, but sometimes I want to fly planes off my carrier...

You get the idea. Even where a given game is "perfect" in all aspects of quality, clarity, playing time, etc., it still only covers that topic/scale and at best makes obsolete only other games on the same topic/scale.
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Kyle Seely
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Charles Vasey wrote:
calandale wrote:
Go comes as close as anything ever will.



It sucks, the artwork is so minimalist!


I'm waiting for a second printing that incorporates all the errata. Maybe they can update the artwork, too?
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p55carroll
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Sluggonics wrote:
Charles Vasey wrote:
calandale wrote:
Go comes as close as anything ever will.

It sucks, the artwork is so minimalist!

I'm waiting for a second printing that incorporates all the errata. Maybe they can update the artwork, too?

Surprising that no themed versions of Go have come along. Navia Dratp is kind of a themed version of Shogi; Knightmare Chess and other games add some theme to Chess; there are Checkers games where the pieces are frogs that jump over each other; and so on. But what about Go? Too sacred to mess with?

I bought my first Go set at Fort Knox in 1975, and the guys in the barracks dubbed it "the airborne-ranger game" (because it seemed somewhat like a wargame, but the units all dropped down from the sky).
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