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Subject: Events and ICE timing, and trashing in play Assets questions rss

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jon doedren
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Can i play an Event mid run? Like, in mid run, can i play Tinkering on a piece of ICE my opponent has just rezzed?

Can I play Tinkering on an unrezzed piece of ICE? (I.E. can i target an unrezzed piece of ICE?)

Can I trash an in-play asset? If someone has Pad Campaign in play and rezzed, can I run against it and trash it?
 
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You cannot take an action (a paid ability whose cost includes [click]) during the resolution of another action. This means you cannot use any actions during a run.

Tinkering says its target must be ICE without specifying rezzed or unrezzed, so yes it may target an unrezzed piece of ICE.

You can trash anything with a trash can icon on it when you access it (unless it was accessed from Archives). So, yes, you can trash an asset when you access it regardless of whether that access is from HQ, R&D, or a remote server.
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jon doedren
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Thank you!
 
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jon doedren
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Now that I think about it, how can i target an unrezzed piece of ICE with Tinkering? I assume in the future there will be some expansion where you will put down a card facedown in a slot where you normally put ICE, but the card won't be ICE. And if i can't tell what the card is because it is face down, how can I target it if targeting has a specific requirement of the target (that I can't see)?
 
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William Frank
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jundle wrote:
Now that I think about it, how can i target an unrezzed piece of ICE with Tinkering? I assume in the future there will be some expansion where you will put down a card facedown in a slot where you normally put ICE, but the card won't be ICE. And if i can't tell what the card is because it is face down, how can I target it if targeting has a specific requirement of the target (that I can't see)?


I had to read this twice to understand it, but I can address your question:

I find it highly unlikely that there will ever be cards that get installed like ice (in front of a server, not in it) and yet are not ice.
 
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Tim Silver
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jundle wrote:
Now that I think about it, how can i target an unrezzed piece of ICE with Tinkering? I assume in the future there will be some expansion where you will put down a card facedown in a slot where you normally put ICE, but the card won't be ICE. And if i can't tell what the card is because it is face down, how can I target it if targeting has a specific requirement of the target (that I can't see)?

Seems to me that any card layer sideways in front of a server is considered ICE, even if the card itself is not an ICE card (unlikely this will ever be allowed anyway).
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Milan Mašát
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DrTall wrote:
You can trash anything with a trash can icon on it when you access it (unless it was accessed from Archives).

Is this confirmed? I think this question is still unresolved. Im most cases it has no meaning to thrash something in archives, but "director haas" can be obtained only by trashing.
 
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Vodnyk wrote:
DrTall wrote:
You can trash anything with a trash can icon on it when you access it (unless it was accessed from Archives).

Is this confirmed? I think this question is still unresolved. Im most cases it has no meaning to thrash something in archives, but "director haas" can be obtained only by trashing.


If you read the rules about accessing Archives, on page 18, you'll see that cards in Archives cannot be trashed.

Page 18 wrote:
Archives: The Runner accesses all cards in Archives and any
upgrades in its root. The Runner turns all cards faceup before
accessing them, and does not need to keep them in order. The
Runner steals all agendas in Archives and cannot trash cards
that are already in Archives
. After accessing Archives, all
cards in Archives return to Archives faceup.
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Milan Mašát
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skiesbleed wrote:
If you read the rules about accessing Archives, on page 18, you'll see that cards in Archives cannot be trashed.

Thank you, I did not have rules on me.
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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skiesbleed wrote:
If you read the rules about accessing Archives, on page 18, you'll see that cards in Archives cannot be trashed.

Page 18 wrote:
Archives: The Runner accesses all cards in Archives and any
upgrades in its root. The Runner turns all cards faceup before
accessing them, and does not need to keep them in order. The
Runner steals all agendas in Archives and cannot trash cards
that are already in Archives
. After accessing Archives, all
cards in Archives return to Archives faceup.


Yup. Not even with Demolition Run.
 
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Dave Green
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Vodnyk wrote:
DrTall wrote:
You can trash anything with a trash can icon on it when you access it (unless it was accessed from Archives).

Is this confirmed? I think this question is still unresolved. Im most cases it has no meaning to thrash something in archives, but "director haas" can be obtained only by trashing.


Seems pretty clear to me as well: if Director Haas is in archives, the runner would not score her like an agenda. This opens up a border situation for the corp to defend her with multiple copies, as she is unique. If you have 2 copies installed, one rezzed and one unrezzed, and the runner successfully runs on the rezzed one, you could rez the other copy during the appropriate "non-ice cards may be rezzed" step in the run, trashing the first vulnerable copy. Very much looking forward to the expansion!
 
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Clearbeard wrote:
Vodnyk wrote:
DrTall wrote:
You can trash anything with a trash can icon on it when you access it (unless it was accessed from Archives).

Is this confirmed? I think this question is still unresolved. Im most cases it has no meaning to thrash something in archives, but "director haas" can be obtained only by trashing.


Seems pretty clear to me as well: if Director Haas is in archives, the runner would not score her like an agenda. This opens up a border situation for the corp to defend her with multiple copies, as she is unique. If you have 2 copies installed, one rezzed and one unrezzed, and the runner successfully runs on the rezzed one, you could rez the other copy during the appropriate "non-ice cards may be rezzed" step in the run, trashing the first vulnerable copy. Very much looking forward to the expansion!


You could also trash her by installing another asset in the server if it looks like the Runner will be able to make it into the server next turn.
 
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etherial wrote:
skiesbleed wrote:
If you read the rules about accessing Archives, on page 18, you'll see that cards in Archives cannot be trashed.

Page 18 wrote:
Archives: The Runner accesses all cards in Archives and any
upgrades in its root. The Runner turns all cards faceup before
accessing them, and does not need to keep them in order. The
Runner steals all agendas in Archives and cannot trash cards
that are already in Archives
. After accessing Archives, all
cards in Archives return to Archives faceup.


Yup. Not even with Demolition Run.

I do not want to be picky, but demolition run can target only HQ or R&D. You note suggest that even Imp should not work, where did you get this from? Why the golden rule shall not work?
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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Vodnyk wrote:
etherial wrote:
skiesbleed wrote:
If you read the rules about accessing Archives, on page 18, you'll see that cards in Archives cannot be trashed.

Page 18 wrote:
Archives: The Runner accesses all cards in Archives and any
upgrades in its root. The Runner turns all cards faceup before
accessing them, and does not need to keep them in order. The
Runner steals all agendas in Archives and cannot trash cards
that are already in Archives
. After accessing Archives, all
cards in Archives return to Archives faceup.


Yup. Not even with Demolition Run.

I do not want to be picky, but demolition run can target only HQ or R&D. You note suggest that even Imp should not work, where did you get this from? Why the golden rule shall not work?


Ah, Oops. Imp, then.
 
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etherial wrote:
Vodnyk wrote:
etherial wrote:
skiesbleed wrote:
If you read the rules about accessing Archives, on page 18, you'll see that cards in Archives cannot be trashed.

Page 18 wrote:
Archives: The Runner accesses all cards in Archives and any
upgrades in its root. The Runner turns all cards faceup before
accessing them, and does not need to keep them in order. The
Runner steals all agendas in Archives and cannot trash cards
that are already in Archives
. After accessing Archives, all
cards in Archives return to Archives faceup.


Yup. Not even with Demolition Run.

I do not want to be picky, but demolition run can target only HQ or R&D. You note suggest that even Imp should not work, where did you get this from? Why the golden rule shall not work?


Ah, Oops. Imp, then.

OK and why it should not trigger golden rule?
 
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Vodnyk wrote:
OK and why it should not trigger golden rule?


Does Imp explicitly say you can trash stuff in Archives? The golden rule doesn't apply because Imp doesn't break any of rules, other than what it already covers on the card. What you're proposing isn't one of the things listed.
 
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Niil945 wrote:
Vodnyk wrote:
OK and why it should not trigger golden rule?


Does Imp explicitly say you can trash stuff in Archives? The golden rule doesn't apply because Imp doesn't break any of rules, other than what it already covers on the card. What you're proposing isn't one of the things listed.


Well, Imp does say it can trash a card, even if it cannot normally be trashed. Cards in Archives cannot normally be trashed. I don't think this was the designer's intent, but reading the card text, it does sound legal.
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skiesbleed wrote:
Niil945 wrote:
Vodnyk wrote:
OK and why it should not trigger golden rule?


Does Imp explicitly say you can trash stuff in Archives? The golden rule doesn't apply because Imp doesn't break any of rules, other than what it already covers on the card. What you're proposing isn't one of the things listed.


Well, Imp does say it can trash a card, even if it cannot normally be trashed. Cards in Archives cannot normally be trashed. I don't think this was the designer's intent, but reading the card text, it does sound legal.

This is also my understanding of Imp.
 
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skiesbleed wrote:
Well, Imp does say it can trash a card, even if it cannot normally be trashed. Cards in Archives cannot normally be trashed. I don't think this was the designer's intent, but reading the card text, it does sound legal.


Poor choice of wording on Imp. Feel free to send a rules clarification request in to FFG. My money is on the answer being no.
 
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Niil945 wrote:
skiesbleed wrote:
Well, Imp does say it can trash a card, even if it cannot normally be trashed. Cards in Archives cannot normally be trashed. I don't think this was the designer's intent, but reading the card text, it does sound legal.


Poor choice of wording on Imp. Feel free to send a rules clarification request in to FFG. My money is on the answer being no.


I agree on both counts. I will submit a question.
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skiesbleed wrote:
Niil945 wrote:
skiesbleed wrote:
Well, Imp does say it can trash a card, even if it cannot normally be trashed. Cards in Archives cannot normally be trashed. I don't think this was the designer's intent, but reading the card text, it does sound legal.


Poor choice of wording on Imp. Feel free to send a rules clarification request in to FFG. My money is on the answer being no.


I agree on both counts. I will submit a question.


Lukas responded to this on Friday, but all he said was that it would be addressed in the next FAQ. We will have to wait until then for a ruling.
 
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Interesting. I would guess based upon the discussions going around of "just rez a second one when the first one is about to be accessed!" that this type of card won't need to be trashed if in archives, it will meet the prerequisite and be stolen by the runner. Can you post the exact question asked and the answer?
 
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Niil945 wrote:
Interesting. I would guess based upon the discussions going around of "just rez a second one when the first one is about to be accessed!" that this type of card won't need to be trashed if in archives, it will meet the prerequisite and be stolen by the runner. Can you post the exact question asked and the answer?


The card specifically says that the Runner gets it as points if it is trashed while being accessed, so if another is rezzed to trash the original before the Runner accesses, the Runner would not get the points.

As for my question to Lukas, there's really not much to see, but here was the exchange:

skiesbleed wrote:
Can Imp be used to trash cards already in Archives?

According to the rules, when Archives is accessed, the "Runner steals all agendas in Archives and cannot trash cards that are already in Archives." However, Imp reads, "Once per turn, you may remove 1 hosted virus counter to trash a card you access at no cost (even if it cannot normally be trashed). " This seems to suggest that Imp can be used to trash cards that are in Archives.

Right now, there is no benefit to this. However, with the spoiled Director Haas, which grants agenda points to the Runner if trashed, that means that Imp could be used to trash Director Haas in Archives, gaining those agenda points. Is this the intent of the card? Can Imp actually be used to trash cards from Archives?


Lukas Litzsinger wrote:
Thanks for the question, I plan to address this in the next FAQ.
 
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