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Subject: A few questions rss

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Sylvester Stachovicz
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1. When Favor of Khan is active? Let's say I place a worker, which gives me 1 water and 1 clay. On the left of worker card there's now a wood icon (Favor). I need water, clay and wood to build. Can I place new building right now? Is the Favor active till I sell the building?

2. Is 7 cards the hand limit? Can I go higher?

3. What happens to sold building card? Is it out of the game or goes reshuffle?

thx
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Eurojuegos Buenos Aires
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Disclaimer: The way we play it

1 - you collect free resources after the selling off your buildings phase, meaning that resources from those buildings that were on your play área at the beggining of your turn, but you sold away, won't yield you favors of the Khan. On the other hand, if you are forced to sell a building because you completed the worker slots, those favors are still available to you until the end of your turn (we don't actually remove the building until the end of the turn, just to keep that in mind). So, all resources (workers and favors) are usable during the whole building phase.


2 - you cannot go above 7 cards

3 - sold buildings get shuffled back when the deck runs out

Maybe the designer can confirm all this
 
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Sarah Reed
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Here's how we play.

1. As soon as a worker is put down, it unlocks the Favor of the Khan to the left. So yes, you'd be able to build a new building based on the resource requirement in your example.

2. You can't go higher than 7 cards.

3. Sold buildings go into a discard pile and when the deck runs out, shuffle the discard pile and make a new deck.

However, different from the poster above, when a building is sold, it is removed immediately per the rules. It says in the rules to discard the card and workers when you sell. Keeping them in play until the end of the turn changes the game and makes it easier, in my opinion.

But it is up to each person to decide house rules and variant game play.
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Sylvester Stachovicz
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SilvaShado wrote:

However, different from the poster above, when a building is sold, it is removed immediately per the rules. It says in the rules to discard the card and workers when you sell. Keeping them in play until the end of the turn changes the game and makes it easier, in my opinion.


He meant the forced sell I guess.

And many thanks for your answers.

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Eurojuegos Buenos Aires
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Indeed, I meant the forced sale (in my not-so-fluent English)

We discard the buildings sold at the start of the owner's turn inmediatelly (they yield no resources). Then we sum up the passive resources and favors. Then we start assigning workers. We build, and finally, we retire all buildings full of workers (forced sale).

Granted the rules say you must discard a building and workers when you sell it. But I see no point in inmediatelly discarding buildings during the construction phase. Or else, how could you (the owner) acquire the resources in the higher level of workers??

Owner: I need that Jade, I will use a worker to get it
/// ZAP /// Building dissapears, Worker dissapears, Jade dissapears
Owner: Was he carrying a pike, or a bomb??

We play that way taking that into account.
Hope the designer can clarify.

My 2 cents.
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Javier Velásquez
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Sylwester:

1. Yes, you can use them right away as they activate inmediatly. The favors last as long as the card is in the table and a worker has activated it. In case of a forced sell, you discard inmediatly, but if you took some resources with that last worker, you can use them, as well as use the favors one last time.

2. The hand limit is 7 cards. You only get up to eight in the two player variant found in the BGG fora and only at the beginning of the game. The it continues up to seven as usual.

3. Sold cards go to a disard pile with all the workers above them. If you finish the deck the first time, you reshuffle the discard pile. The second time the game ends (althought with six players we've found that the game should end the third time the deck depletes, but that's still not an official rule).
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Sarah Reed
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Thanks Javier for the clarification. So for forced selling, you can use a building's resources that turn to build a new building. That's good to know. And since you can only build one building a turn, it's not that hard to keep track of.

So I guess we do it similarly, but still discard the forced sell cards pretty quickly.

Our process is:
I put a worker on a building of mine and that would cause it to force sell.
Before discarding it, I build the new building using the temporary and static resources of the forced sell building.
Then discard the forced sell building.

Our process is not that different from keeping them till the end of the turn because it would not have any effect anyways. I would just be worried about remembering to discard it at the end of the turn.

Pastor_Mora wrote:
Owner: I need that Jade, I will use a worker to get it
/// ZAP /// Building dissapears, Worker dissapears, Jade dissapears
Owner: Was he carrying a pike, or a bomb??

lol! That would not be good.
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David Minken
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The forced sell really makes a difference if someone else uses your card and you are forced to sell your card outside of your turn. So one of your opponents can take advantage of your top row of resources (or more if they place multiple workers) and force you to trash your card before you get a chance to use all of your sweet, sweet resources for your next turn.

As for the hand limit. I had assumed that 7 was the limit, but it wasn't totally clear to me. Suppose I had a hand of 5, I sold a card that was already on the table, and I chose not to do anything else for the rest of my turn. So, instead of getting 3 cards (for selling) I would only get 2? (We ignored the hand limit for cases like this, which made selling a strategy to improve your building options for the next turn and/or increase your # of workers to sabotage next turn.)

Also for clarification - the passive resources (i.e. the resource in the top right and the Khan's favours) can ONLY be used by the OWNER of the card. So, if someone places a worker on my building, they may actually onlock a passive resource for me for my next turn and they don't actually get the benefit of it - they are limited to the resources that their worker(s) just covered (i.e. to the right of the line). This is how we are playing, but I just wanted to be sure.
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As I understand, the resource icon in the top right corner of the card (passive resources) is available to its owner from the moment the site is built / put in play, so no workers are required.

The resources below and to the left of every row of the site's output (Khan's favors) are only unlocked for the owner as workers are assigned to the site.
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Sarah Reed
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Pastor_Mora wrote:
As I understand, the resource icon in the top right corner of the card (passive resources) is available to its owner from the moment the site is built / put in play, so no workers are required.

The resources below and to the left of every row of the site's output (Khan's favors) are only unlocked for the owner as workers are assigned to the site.

That's my understadning as well. Other players can only gain the temporary resources from other people's buildings.
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David Minken
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SilvaShado wrote:
Pastor_Mora wrote:
As I understand, the resource icon in the top right corner of the card (passive resources) is available to its owner from the moment the site is built / put in play, so no workers are required.

The resources below and to the left of every row of the site's output (Khan's favors) are only unlocked for the owner as workers are assigned to the site.

That's my understadning as well. Other players can only gain the temporary resources from other people's buildings.

Ok good - we all agree! Thanks!

Any comments about the hand limit? Am I just being daft?! Whenever I read hand limit, I interpret it as such. But, normally there is a qualifier when you need to pick up extra cards. To use Glory to Rome as an example, it states something like, "if you 'think' (i.e. pass) pick up 1 card if you are already at or exceeding your hand limit. Otherwise fill your hand back up to the hand limit". So, seeing that we are given an exact # of cards to pick up at the end of our turn, is that irrespective of the hand limit?
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somiryu wrote:
2. The hand limit is 7 cards. You only get up to eight in the two player variant found in the BGG fora and only at the beginning of the game. The it continues up to seven as usual.


A quote from the designer above.
My take is that 7 cards is a hard limit.
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Sarah Reed
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Pastor_Mora wrote:
somiryu wrote:
2. The hand limit is 7 cards. You only get up to eight in the two player variant found in the BGG fora and only at the beginning of the game. The it continues up to seven as usual.


A quote from the designer above.
My take is that 7 cards is a hard limit.


Yep. That's my take on it too.
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Javier Velásquez
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7 cards is a hard limit! I really have to polish the rules to contemplate all those questions. This is really insightful for me! The idea of having a hard limit is to be able to control a player from sabotaging to much. Still, any variations suggested to the game are much appreciated: that's the advantage of having a small run and being able to give light to a second more polished edition. (I'll be sure to put you all in the credits as special playtesters of the game!)
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David Minken
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Hey Javier - thanks for the clarification!

The reason why I kept asking about the hand limit, is that I find in some rulesets IF there is a hand limit AND there are specific instructions to draft 'X' number of cards depending on the action you took, there is usually a disclaimer as to what to do if these two things contradict each other. The best example I can think of is from Glory to Rome (below). Here you see that even if you are at your max hand limit, you are still entitled to one card (the third bullet point).
Quote:
Thinking
When you pass, you immediately perform one Thinker action. You
may choose ONE of the following actions:
• Take one Jack (if available)
• Draw as many Order cards from the draw pile as you need to fill
to your maximum hand size (normally five).
• Draw one additional Order card (if you are at or above your
maximum hand size)
If you choose to draw Order cards then you must draw to maximum
hand size—you may not fill your hand partially

I'm not suggesting that you change the rules of the game, I am humbly suggesting to explicitly state this in the second print rulebook!
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