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Subject: How Is Java??? Cuz I Love Tikal!! rss

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Zach Drapala
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If I love Tikal, will I like Java? I will mainly be playing with 2!
Thanks
 
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Scott Woodard
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I'm a big fan of Tikal, but I never warmed up to Java. I found it a tad too fiddly and with the wrong players, it can suffer from analysis paralysis FAR more than Tikal. In that "series" of games, I would probably recommend Mexica over Java any day.

~Scott

 
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P B
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Scott is smoking dope.

Java is awesome with 2, 3 or 4 players. It is our all-time favorite - with 2 players. Definitely give it a go.
 
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Chuck Meeks
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I like both Java and Tikal but I think Java is the better of the two. Definately worth getting.
 
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Scott Woodard
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I'm not smoking dope.

Average length of Tikal games I have played: 75-90 mins.
Average length of Mexica games I have played: SAME
Average length of Java games I have played: 2-3 hours!!! And trust me, I wasn't the one slowing the game down...

~Scott
 
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David Tracy
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Odds are if you like one, you will like the other. I think Java is a little heavier, but both are good.
 
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P B
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Sorry Scott - I was only playing.

Our average Java game is 1.5 hrs. It moves along just fine. Yes, it is a heavy game that requires you to think due to the many options and strategies on hand, but why would that be a bad thing? I've said this before, 'analysis paralysis' is not an characteristic of any game, but rather that of the players.

Mexica is primarily an area control game which does not work well for two players. I've tried it. We basically went back and forth vying for dominance. Very boring.

I think Java is by far the best of the series. Torres is also excellent - though it falls down one notch because it is the most abstract of all.
 
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Robert Rossney
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I think that Java is heavy and interesting. I think that Tikal is heavy and dull.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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I prefer Mexica from the lot of them. Mexica is the only one with perfect information (only luck is actions of other players). Torres is also perfect information if you play by the advanced rules. Having the full arsenal of cards, though, is also significantly more complicated (can you spell AP?).

I just love cruising the guys (I can't even remember what they're called anymore--Mexicas?) around the board by foot and by boat with the developing canals, balancing movement with building placement.
 
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Philip Thomas
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I like Java a lot. Haven't had any AP problems as yet.

Tikal and Torres are also good, though Torres is fairly abstract. Haven't played Mexica.
 
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Michael Kandrac
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Tikal is the best, especially with the auction variant; Mexica a somewhat close second.

Java is more like work and less fun simply because it does induce far more analysis paralysis than its brothers. This is due to the fact that there are far more possibilities to consider with each move, more scoring methods, three dimensionality, and the complexity of having to place various terrain types. You must also consider when to pull the trigger on the use of the action point chips.

This has been my experience with different game groups.


Gg
 
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I love Tikal as well. Java is very good, although didn't grab me quite as much. However, the pieces and having elevation matter, is very interesting and I am always up for a game.

As the others have mentioned, Torres is a very good game as well. The theme is there, although not as engrossing as it is in Tikal.
 
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Simon Robinson
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Like many games, Java is an acquired taste. It is quite mathematical and the permutations can be quite overwhelming, especially towards the end of the game. The end game of Java is crucial and a lot of people are annoyed the first time they play as they underestimate how much it is worth- you can sometimes get half of your victory points or more on the final turn- but the payoff is depth and strategy. I feel that Java is deeper and more strategic than Tikal, and another point is that it is by far one of the most aesthetically pleasing games there is; the final board with the elevated padi fields is a truly beautiful sight. I'm also biased in that I don't like Tikal that much.
 
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Bob
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Our group has been playing the "mask trilogy" since early December. All three are fun and have a uniqueness to them. I won't repeat the previous observations, but personally I like Tikal and Mexica better than Java.

Bob
arrrh
 
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Dane Peacock
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I'm with the dope smoker on this one.

Tikal has a great atmosphere, along with being a tense game. Java feels just about as abstract as they get. Analysis paralysis is more prominant in Java because a player cannot really plan ahead. Planning and moving all occur during a player's turn, because the previous player has a huge impact on the active player's position.
 
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Zach Drapala
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does Torres play well with 2?
 
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Robert Martin
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If you like Tikal, you'll like Java as well.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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Gamegrunt wrote:
Tikal is the best, especially with the auction variant; Mexica a somewhat close second.

The problem is, Tikal with the auction variant takes easily twice as long as a game of Mexica. I actually prefer Tikal with the auction variant as well, but I almost never play it that way, because time is such a limited commodity.
 
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Magic Pink
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robartin wrote:
If you like Tikal, you'll like Java as well.


I like Tikal but disliked Java enough to trade it away. sauron
 
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TheFreshPrince wrote:
does Torres play well with 2?

Yes. (And 3 or 4).
 
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Played Java for the first time last night (and won!).

No doubt about the analysis paralysis. Of the three other veteran players, the one that came in second took 25 minutes for one of his end turns! After about 20 min I finally said, "What are you doing??? It's been 20 minutes! Just put some tiles down!" He finally decided on some elaborate overlapping scheme and got himself 2 for a temple and 2 for a festival. All that for 4 points. I hadn't looked at board during that time, and picked up 6 points without blinking (ok ~5 min) dropping tiles in a completely different location.

Yeah, you can really get bogged down with calculating the possibilities in this game. Game length looks to be ~2hours. Perhaps 90 minutes with average players.
 
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Tom "Snicker Daddy" Pancoast
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In case it isn't obvious from the replies above, Java is a considerably slower and more thoughtful game than Tikal. Certainly it isn't clear that liking Tikal will insure that you like Java. If you like the action points of Tikal but wish you had more control and wouldn't mind a little brain burn, then you will probably like Java.
 
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