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Fallen City of Karez» Forums » Rules

Subject: Activation Phase rss

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Marc von Canal
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We just played our first game and I have an observation about the activation phase. Mainly: is it really even necessary.

We found that we accidentally conducted all of our "activations" in the action phase, right as we placed the workers and shield, we simply paid the resources and claimed the benefits. When we realized our mistake, we included the activation phase. However, we found that it did not alter the outcomes of the actions one bit, but it did severely slow down the game. I don't know why we could not simply place our workers and shields and conduct the actions immediately (except for entering dungeons, which is clearly handled in the adventures phase).

Incidentally, some players were actually annoyed once we implemented the activating phase in that they had to wait to take their action, when they could have done it during the actions phase with exactly the same outcome.

Unless I can be convinced that skipping the activating phase somehow breaks the game, we will play the quicker version with immediate actions.

Please let me know if anyone else has experienced this "Activating Phase Malaise".

 
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Mark Stocks
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My partner and I also noticed this and kind of did half and half, off the top of my head I cant think of a scenario where this would cause a problem, although you would still need to remember that a building owner who buys his own merchandise cant claim his own money until the end (no money recycling to buy all items).

As I've mentioned in another thread this would actually make it more tactical as you can use buildings to get resources to then use in the same round on other buildings rather than only using the resources you have at the start if the turn.

You would still need a cleanup phase to move around the workers and the guild tokens, but it would be much shorter.

Depending on the play through that should be coming soon I may do this as well.
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Elad Goldsteen
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Activation phase does "slow" down the game but is crucial to any worker placement game as you might re-use workers and other actions making your turn even longer than it suppose to be.

The order of activating is also important (strategic wise) for producing and buying equipment as it is the last chance to get some help to your raiding party.
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Marc von Canal
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Well, what we did is place the citizens/adventurers on the action spaces (standing of lying down depending on the action requirement), place the guild shield, pay any other resource cost, then take the action. We also followed the rule that the owner of the marketplace can't claim purchased items and reclaim gold until the end of the action phase. Once we were done with actions, the "activating phase" was just a quick cleanup phase, where live citizens and adventurers are returned to the city center and dead ones are placed into the pool beside the board.

This ensured that we accurately accounted for citizen and adventurer limits, discarded dead ones, and limited each player's actions by their number of shields. No workers were accidently re-used (since they stayed on the action spaces until "clean up" at the end of the action phase), and placing shields on each action ensured that actions were not duplicated. Again, I could not think of a single instance where this quicker method resulted in a different outcome than would have resulted if we waited until the activating phase to claim our action rewards.

I suppose there are cases where you could use a reward as the cost for another action during the same phase. However, as someone else has mentioned, I feel this actually adds another layer of interesting strategy while at the same time speeding up game play.

Don't get me wrong. We very much enjoy the game and I was thrilled to have Kickstarted it (also looking forward to my additional KS rewards). I just feel combining the Action and Activating phases into one quicker phase is more to my liking. So for now it will be a house rule at our gaming table.
 
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Elad Goldsteen
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I am very happy that you had fun playing the game

The Activation phase is a clean-up fast phase and it sounds like you did just right (but without order).

You will find this phase more valuable with the next 2 expansions as they will add activating manipulation and other re-actions.
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Robert Ruescher
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Question about the market and buying items.

Is the owner of the market the only player that has to wait until after the activation phase to get his items, while others get their item when they pay the gold?

This rule is somewhat puzzling, as the only gold that cannot be collected right away would be his or her own. I understand the why to a point that they can't buy 3 things with 1 gold, but if you could go over this in the video with an example of a player actually owning the market or tower, it would help.
 
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Elad Goldsteen
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thebobymon wrote:
Question about the market and buying items.

Is the owner of the market the only player that has to wait until after the activation phase to get his items, while others get their item when they pay the gold?


Yes.
thebobymon wrote:

This rule is somewhat puzzling, as the only gold that cannot be collected right away would be his or her own. I understand the why to a point that they can't buy 3 things with 1 gold, but if you could go over this in the video with an example of a player actually owning the market or tower, it would help.


Sure.
 
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Owen Fingerhut
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It seems like a good way to work the action and activation phases into one is just to give each player a little box to store everything you get in the activation phase until the actions are over. Personally I was thinking of making a nice looking wheel with the symbols of the guilds on it to store that stuff, though considering how little spare table space there often is that might not be practical space-wise.
 
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David Hoffman
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Another reason not to resolve the Activation Phase immediately is, if our group played it right, you cannot go adventuring with heroes if you didn't have at least one at the start of the turn.
 
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Damien M
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ohbalto wrote:
Another reason not to resolve the Activation Phase immediately is, if our group played it right, you cannot go adventuring with heroes if you didn't have at least one at the start of the turn.


I've never done that...why would you not be able to use all of the heroes you have gained during the adventuring phase? That is completely separate from the activating phase.

Also, in regards to the activating/action phase difference, my group has always had to strategize in what order to activate things. The limited supply of various things can force people to activate one thing before another, which then stops someone else's action that they may have had, but no longer do.
 
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Kris Ardianto
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ohbalto wrote:
Another reason not to resolve the Activation Phase immediately is, if our group played it right, you cannot go adventuring with heroes if you didn't have at least one at the start of the turn.


I agree with the activation phase not included in the action but I disagree that you cannot send heroes to adventure if you don't have at least one hero at the start of the turn. As far as I can see this is planning, so I can plan to go on adventuring though I don't have heroes yet and get a hero on the same turn. During activation, which I get the hero first then after the activation phase over, I could send that hero into an adventure.
If somewhat I did not manage to get the hero, I can cancel the token (which add threat and lose a valor if any).

And to the general idea, as the designer already pointed out, there are many things why he divide the action and activation phase on the first place. It matters a lot!

It's tactical decision and one should exploit it to his benefit. For example you cannot buy an items if you don't have the required gold, even previously you already placed workers on lava mill, since that action can only be activated during activation phase. If the actions are immediately resolve, you don't need to place guild tokens to remind whose action it is.
 
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Sebastian
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I hope this was not asked before, but can I buy an item in the activation phase when I don't have any shield token left?
Do I have to put down a shield when buying in the activation phase? That would mean I must first choose another action to get back at least one shield. Could I return the shield right at the moment, after the phase or will I be one shielt short in the next action phase?

Thankls a lot.
 
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Damien M
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During the activation phase, you are taking your guild tokens off the board to activate those locations. No new guild tokens should be getting placed during this step.
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Sebastian
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So you can purchase weapons without any token left?
 
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Damien M
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Purchasing items from the markets does not require removing (or adding) a guild token. You just pay the gold to the owner of the building (or the bank, if no owner) and take the item. That is your activation for the turn.
 
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