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Smash Up: Awesome Level 9000» Forums » Rules

Subject: Spirit (Ghosts) : discard card rss

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Jean-Baptiste RAMOND
France
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Hello (sorry for my english)

For the Spirit minion, the text is :
Choose a minion. You may discard cards equal to its power to destroy it.

Do I have to discard cards only from my hand, or can i discard my cards in play too ?

(the Ghost card is more precise : You may discard a card from your hand.)

thanks !
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Bryan Stout
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This is a good question. I believe the intent is that the cards are discarded from the hand, but an argument could be made the other way. It would be good to get official clarification on this.
 
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Alex Martinez
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Discard is consistently used as a term for getting rid of a card in your hand.

Destroyed is used for any card in play.

Let's head off any overanalysis of the rules here.
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Bryan Stout
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I agree. Well, "discard" is also used for disposing of cards that are taken out of play, such as scored bases and the minions and actions on them.

But given the possibility of honest misunderstanding, it would be good to clear up the meaning officially.
 
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Alex Martinez
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Sigh.

One of the things I'm always frustrated about at BGG is how often "Official" rulings are called for, especially on obvious questions like this.

But, hey, whatever floats your boat.
 
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Whisper
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Dear all,


I don't understand your joking answers.


Indeed, the question is not about over-understanding the rules, but just to highlight a difference between two cards of the same type, in the same game and belonging to the same "army".


The Ghost says "You may discard a card from your hand"

The Spirit says "Choose a minion. You may discard cards equal to its power to destroy it."


Is there a reason why the effect is not exactly the same? I can understand the answer "just because there is more text to display on the Spirit card" or whatever is the reason but when you try to translate the effect into a different language, it seems logical to me to try to get the original meaning wished by the designer.


And, to be honest, it seems to me logical to be able to discard cards in play to destroy an other player's powerful minion, especially if the Ghosts are associated with.. I don't know... the Zombies for instance.
 
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Bryan Stout
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Hi Whisper. I can perfectly understand your confusion: the same question occurred to me. The rules, unfortunately, do not clarify the difference between "discarding" and "destroying", they only specify that in each case the card goes to the discard pile.

Nevertheless, looking at how the terms are used in the rules and the cards -- I have entered all the cards into a spreadsheet for better searching -- I am pretty sure that "discard" is only meant to apply to cards from the hand, or cards that are no longer in play, while "destroy" is used for cards that are in play. I believe the fact that "from your hand" is mentioned in one case and not another is not significant: it's simply assumed that "from the hand" is understood.

I think that it would be good for the terms to be better clarified to avoid the ambiguities the some have noticed. Alex thinks the answer is so obvious that no clarification is needed. Neither position was meant to be a joke.

 
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Alex Martinez
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My apologies, Whisper. I know your question was meant sincerely.

I'm just annoyed by the number of times people seek official rulings for obvious answers. Actually, I'm not annoyed by that. I'm annoyed when someone uses that as an excuse to claim the rules are not well written, as is often the case.

Now, in a game like Smash Up, there isn't really much conflict. You don't discard cards in play. You destroy them. The game doesn't define the terms thoroughly, but it is clearly the intent.

Affects that require destroying Minions in play are clearly labeled as such, so while the wording on the cards you mentioned might be open to interpretation, the consistency of the other rules means it's safe to assume that you NEVER discard a card in play (unless scoring a base).

Hope that helps.
 
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Whisper
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Ok guys, thank you for your valuable help.


I totally agree with you that it's boring to play with players who always try to find the limit of a rule. There is few of them and most of the time you don't have any conflict.

However, and to be cristal clear, we are currently involved in a small project of translating to French this game and the exercice is always a little bit tricky because English is a real straight forward language and by translating you always have to clarify things.

Another issue is the current trend to trust the players. They consider that the players will be nice with each others. As I'm never playing with "nice" players, I really feel the need to have very precise rules. And this is particularly true with card games which requires the sharpest terms.

We will discuss this point with the publisher and try to fix it in the French version.


Thanks again and long-life to Ghosts !
 
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Alex Martinez
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Whisper, sounds like you have a tough road to navigate. Good luck.

Although I do think there's a difference between being "nice" and being "civil". I don't need my players to be nice, but I do avoid playing with argumentative people who will drain all the fun out of it. Maybe you don't have that option though, and if so, best of luck to you. I'm sure you'll do just fine on your translation.
 
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Jean-Baptiste RAMOND
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KingCroc wrote:
Discard is consistently used as a term for getting rid of a card in your hand.
Destroyed is used for any card in plat


Thanks for your help !
On the rulesbook, the discard effect is this one :

When a card get discarded it goes to the discard pile of a player whose Deck is came from, no matter who played or controlled it.

It's clear that a card in play can be discarded.

That´s why I'm confused...
 
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Alex Martinez
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I think the wording is there to avoid confusion on future cards that might be introduced where "discarding from play" might actually be used.

I don't have the set in front of me at the moment, but I think some cards might have "discard action cards played on bases" as an effect too.

But to get to Ghosts specifically, their theme is very clearly about discarding cards from your hand. So it's safe to assume that there is no confusion here, even if perhaps the wording might be a little vague if someone were so inclined to interpret it as such.

To put it more specifically, minions never seem to be "Discarded" while in play.
 
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Jean-Baptiste RAMOND
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Thanks very much, maybe someone frome AEG will give a final answer. I agree with you, I think for Ghosts, cards must be discarded from hand.
 
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Bryan Stout
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PetitRenne wrote:
KingCroc wrote:
Discard is consistently used as a term for getting rid of a card in your hand.
Destroyed is used for any card in plat


Thanks for your help !
On the rulesbook, the discard effect is this one :

When a card get discarded it goes to the discard pile of a player whose Deck is came from, no matter who played or controlled it.

It's clear that a card in play can be discarded.

That´s why I'm confused...

Actually, no: you discard cards before they are in play (while in the hand), or after they are in play (when the card they are on is discarded or returned).

Here are some examples:

- The Wizards card Mass Enchantment allows you to play someone else's action card as if it were your own, and it might end up attached to a base or to a minion on a base.
- The Ghosts card Make Contact allows you to take control of someone else's minion, which will be on a base.

After the bases that those cards are on are scored, they and all the cards on them are no longer in play, and will be discarded. The cards referred to above will be discarded back to the Wizards and Ghosts discard piles respectively, even though they were played or controlled by other players.

Therefore, the rule that confused you does not mean that you must be able to "discard" cards while they are in play.
 
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J
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You are correct. All that matters is the number of discarded cards. What cards you are discarding has no relevance.
 
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