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Subject: Help from the gallery please rss

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Corbon Loughnan
Indonesia
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We have a minor situation in our PBF game. We've resolved it in-game with a die roll for now, but it would be good to canvas opinions andd see what everyone thinks about how to handle it in the future.

Hero has a guard order
OL is taking his turn.
OL activates a hard hitting monster (Naga under +2command) and shoots from long range (6). Its extremely likely hero will use the guard or lose it, so OL reasonably rolls for the heroes guard as well, as is standard practice to save time. Simultaneously, the hero player is online and sees the OL activate the Naga and move it into position for the attack and also rolls for the guard, playing a feat to improve his chances of a kill.
The OL roll comes out first, but by close enough a margin in time to make it clear that both rolls were created simultaneously. The rolls are significantly different so that one kills the Naga and one does not.

Which roll should be taken?

Poll
Which roll to accept when they are 'simultaneous'?
The first roll that hit the 'table' (without the Feat)
The first roll that hit the 'table' (with the Feat)
The roll by the owning player, with feat
      13 answers
Poll created by corbon

 
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Retired Hurt

Brussels
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We had a similar situation with The Immortal, for a chest roll, but the two rolls were identical cool

As the players aren't usually at the keyboard at the same time, the OL should be allowed to roll to save time ; and I explicitly allowed this to my opponent when it was obvious. The hero player can't say in advance that he's going to use a feat (unless the monster is already in position to be hit before the OL moves anything) without being at a disadvantage.

Also, one shouldn't let one party "correct" the roll of the other after seeing it.

So, my inclination is to say "first roll with feat". But the player might than have information that the feat would be useful.

Whence in this rather uncommon case (one seldom uses a feat on Guard, except perhaps Follow Through, for which one is allowed to see the roll anyway), I'd suggest that the hero player PM someone else in the community, before the OL turns begins, to say that his roll and feat will count in such-and-such situation. The inconvenience to the PMed guy is very small.

 
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duhtch
United States
Colorado
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Merrimac wrote:
We had a similar situation with The Immortal, for a chest roll, but the two rolls were identical cool

As the players aren't usually at the keyboard at the same time, the OL should be allowed to roll to save time ; and I explicitly allowed this to my opponent when it was obvious. The hero player can't say in advance that he's going to use a feat (unless the monster is already in position to be hit before the OL moves anything) without being at a disadvantage.

Also, one shouldn't let one party "correct" the roll of the other after seeing it.

So, my inclination is to say "first roll with feat". But the player might than have information that the feat would be useful.

Whence in this rather uncommon case (one seldom uses a feat on Guard, except perhaps Follow Through, for which one is allowed to see the roll anyway), I'd suggest that the hero player PM someone else in the community, before the OL turns begins, to say that his roll and feat will count in such-and-such situation. The inconvenience to the PMed guy is very small.

it is not similar at all. They are asking if the great is played. I would go with the first rolled. The big question is if the fear can be played. Since it has to be played before the attack and not after, you really just have to trust what the hero's intent was.

So my answer is first roll and use the feat.
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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duhtch wrote:
Merrimac wrote:
We had a similar situation with The Immortal, for a chest roll, but the two rolls were identical cool

As the players aren't usually at the keyboard at the same time, the OL should be allowed to roll to save time ; and I explicitly allowed this to my opponent when it was obvious. The hero player can't say in advance that he's going to use a feat (unless the monster is already in position to be hit before the OL moves anything) without being at a disadvantage.

Also, one shouldn't let one party "correct" the roll of the other after seeing it.

So, my inclination is to say "first roll with feat". But the player might than have information that the feat would be useful.

Whence in this rather uncommon case (one seldom uses a feat on Guard, except perhaps Follow Through, for which one is allowed to see the roll anyway), I'd suggest that the hero player PM someone else in the community, before the OL turns begins, to say that his roll and feat will count in such-and-such situation. The inconvenience to the PMed guy is very small.

it is not similar at all. They are asking if the great is played. I would go with the first rolled. The big question is if the fear can be played. Since it has to be played before the attack and not after, you really just have to trust what the hero's intent was.

So my answer is first roll and use the feat.


I think the vote is quite clear so far.
And I'm not surprised the first option has no votes.

IMO if it is a 'play before the roll feat' (eg focus) then the feat should be played on either roll, as the hero player cearly made that decision and the OL player substituting could not do so.
But if it was a 'play after the roll' feat (such as Flaming Fury) then the hero player should choose after seeing the result of whichever roll was used.

But Merrimac is right in that the hero player can;t really tell the OL in advance that he's going to use a feat, or even wants to take the guard himself. Especailly if the OL has the possibility of screwing things up by choosing the wrong order of monsters, so you don;t want to say "if you do this, this hero will guard".
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
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I think if the game has feats, then the OL should just never roll for the Hero. It may slow the game down a little, but it's a PBF and it's supposed to be slow

-shnar
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Jeff Long
Canada
Saskatoon
Saskatchewan
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I don't think your poll is complete. I don't think any of the listed options are best.

From the initial post, it's clear that what's at issue here is a "contested" roll. This is through no fault of either side - both acted reasonably, but circumstances beyond the control of either (being online at the same time and cross-posting) obviously made the roll problematic for you. In my view, this is a perfect analog to a die falling on the floor or bumping into something on the table and landing on its edge. When rolls are contested, you re-roll them (with both sides agreeing who makes the re-roll to avoid confusion, of course). The hero gets to use the feat.

If the hero had come on much later and indicated they wanted to use the Feat on the guard, you'd have to rewind to that point anyway and make a new roll.

Of course, if you have a policy in advance for dealing with this exact situation that both sides agree to, no worries. Of the policies in the poll, it's clear to me that "roll by the owning player with feat" is best, because that is just how interrupts work. But the future policy for rolls contested for other, unforeseen reasons should just be re-roll.

Sure, with unscrupulous heroes, you run the risk that Feats become a magic "Aim-after-the-fact" for rolls you don't like. I think that's just the level of trust needed for PBF.

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Retired Hurt

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This is a wise view.

In case it happens in our game (there have been cross-posts more than once, but fortunately not such delicate ones), let's do it that way.

Of course, one can't prove that there was cross-posting, as only the time of entering the post on the Forum is known, not the time when one began writing. It oce again boils down to honesty.
 
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