Ien C.
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The rules say for the person behind to go first the following round.

I'm guessing this is as a catch-up mechanism, on the basis that going first means you have a half-a-turn head start on going out.

However, in my handful of (enjoyable) plays, all 2 player games, we've found that going first doesn't really feel like an advantage, and may even be a slight disadvantage.

Indeed, the person going second has the first chance to extend sets, has a choice of taking a discard as opposed to only researching, and can make his or her move based a bit of knowledge of what the other player is going for.

So next time we play, we're probably going to try having the leader go first the next round. Wondering if anyone else has tried this and/or has thoughts about this?


1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremiah Lee
United States
Milan
MI
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I can see the reasoning behind this, though I've not really had the chance to test it. We've been playing the game lots, and found, generally, the slight difference of first or second hasn't meant any real difference in our games.

I'd be interested to hear what Rob Seater (the developer of the game, and an amazing game-mind) has to say.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Seater
United States
Ashland
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
I help designers improve their games.
badge
Feed me...games...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In my experiences, the player who goes first usually goes out first (which is, in turn, usually the person who gets a better score). It is certainly not an advantage in all hands, and I like the fact that going first isn't an overwhelming advantage, but statistically I think the first player has an edge. However, I'm not 100% sure if that is a function of how I & my testers played, of if it really is a property of optimal play.

If that isn't the dynamic you've been finding, then I think a better option might be to alternate who goes first, regardless of score. That will average out over the set, and will give you both positions equally.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ien C.
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rseater wrote:
If that isn't the dynamic you've been finding, then I think a better option might be to alternate who goes first, regardless of score. That will average out over the set, and will give you both positions equally.

Thanks Rob, we'll try that. And by the way, THANKS for bringing out this lovely little game!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oliver Paul
Iceland
Reykjavik
None
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rseater wrote:
If that isn't the dynamic you've been finding, then I think a better option might be to alternate who goes first, regardless of score. That will average out over the set, and will give you both positions equally.


That's the way we've always played it, works great
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
What might be interesting is to alternate who's "start player", but after getting the hand dealt rather than playing first, they could decide to play first or have their opponent play first. Would anyone ever force their opponent to play first?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Seater
United States
Ashland
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
I help designers improve their games.
badge
Feed me...games...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
schwarzott wrote:
What might be interesting is to alternate who's "start player", but after getting the hand dealt rather than playing first, they could decide to play first or have their opponent play first. Would anyone ever force their opponent to play first?

That would be a real test! I might let my opponent go first on hands where I have many pairs but no engines -- so that I can see an additional discard-pickup option option, with a high probability that it will complete a set. That could make a big difference on getting a pair-heavy hand going quickly.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.