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Commands & Colors: Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: Future "Expansions"? rss

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Justin Borges
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I can't find it covered anywhere (please point me to it if it has been covered), but has GMT announced any further C&C games?
Here we have Carthage and Rome, but how about Imperial Rome, feudal Japan, colonial wars?
 
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Chuck Meeks
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On page 2 of the rule book there is a note that says "Some units will not be deployed in the scenarios that are included in the game, but will be used in later expansion modules." So good news for all that like the game!

 
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Justin Borges
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Aha, why thank you. I've only been able to sleeve the cards so far and take a quick look at the components and scenarios. I fear the stickering

But that's great news, and I hope they extend this game a few times over. Again, other wars/periods would be fantastic.
 
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Bill Bennett
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Andy Lewis of GMT on Consimworld stated that the first expansion will be Greeks vs. Persians. He also said it would be posted on the P500 "soon".

And I note he said the FIRST expansion...
 
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Ken Takacs
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He also said that there will be scenarios that use the siege equipment.
 
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Justin Borges
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Wicked!
That is fantastic news, and I'll be right there with my P500 order. They did well to go with this game, methinks
 
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Nigel Buckle
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I hope everyone who P500'd the game will go and do the same for the expansion(s) immediately, I really don't want to wait quite as long as I did for this game ... soblue
 
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Ryan Goodwin
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Besides historical expansions, I'm hoping for the fantasy expansion that has been hinted about in the past. I would love to see units and scenarios based upon Warhammer or Lord of the Rings.
 
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Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies, and…read the rulebook again.
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I'm hoping that the Napoleonic set will see the light of day.
 
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Sean Swart
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I'll be happy if they just keep supporting THIS version of the game.

Roman Civil Wars
Caesar's campaign in Gaul
Agricola in Britain, along with other campaigns in Britain.
Rome's wars with Germania and Dacia
The eastern war's against Pontus
Greek city states battles
Persia's conquest of Empire
Greek vs. Persia
Alexander's conquest of Greece, Persia, and India.
Alexander's Successor's wars.

There is SO MUCH that can be covered without a new game.
 
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John Foley
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Sean, I completely agree.
 
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Paul Dobbins
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I would like to see future expansions offered, especially rules and scenarios, but I am uninterested in collecting more wooden blocks and more stickers, although I'm sure we're heading towards expensive new sets with plenty of blocks and stickers.....
 
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Kevin Duke
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I agree with Sean that it would be very good to bring out more scenarios/campaigns that use the current system and some of his topics would work for that.

I think they will need additional (and different) units to deal properly with the Persians, and the battles against purely Celtic forces will need some help too-- at least a larger supply of 'Warrior" units and medium horse. (By the way, I used extra blocks and stickers to give the brown folks one more Warrior.)

Given that they have Greeks v Persians already planned, I doubt they will try very many scenarios for those areas with the current tonnage of blocks.


As for Nigel's point, I suspect you are in luck. I think a large part of the "delay" in bringing this one out was just working out the logistics. If you follow the pictures of the early concepts, when they decided to go from counters to "something else," they tried several different approaches before settling on the one that they have. (and while many people talk about how cool the "armored box" is, I suspect that was a special production all its won.) Now that the production problems are mostly figured out, bringing out further games will require only research-design and some playtesting of scenarios. Much as people are clamoring for "more-- right now," even-- in many cases- before they have finished putting the stickers on the set they just bought, but I would be very surprised if GMT brought out a new version in less than six months. It's just a "merchandizing" choice if nothing else (and because they have a lot of other games in the pipeline which have exceeded 500 pre-orders.)

My 42 cent wager is that they will be shooting for Greeks v Persians in time for Xmas 06. They wanted this one in time for Christmas 05 but the last stage logistics tripped them. I will bet they have most of those ironed out and you might be sticking more counters on soon after Thanksgiving.
 
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Barry Kendall
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It has been suggested by someone at GMT that "C3I No. 18" will have more C&CA scenarios. The first expansion does move into the classical Greek period.

I know that Richard Borg had a strong interest in Egyptians. It seems likely we will see battles and units for New Kingdom Egyptian and Kushite Egyptian armies, Hittites, Assyrians and Babylonians, at least.

I'm guessing that Light Chariot units will have two chariots per, two-hex missile capability, Evade capability, and will engage in Close Combat with three dice on attack and two on defense. Extrapolated from the current Heavy Chariots and light cavalry capabilities.

Also expect there will be a bunch of them, but also some battles featuring the problem of chariot armies engaging light foes in broken terrain (Hebrews, for example).

Oh, what fun we're in for.

Keep the enthusiasm up, Richard not only has a Napoleonic version but also American Revolution/Age of Reason and Mexican-American War version all dressed up waiting for a publisher to dance with.

He also really likes his Fantasy version.
 
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Justin Borges
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All the possibilities are quite exciting.
But I do wish that GMT would lay it all on the table and let us know which sets they would be making. That way if we wanted some that weren't going to be done (say, samuari), then the more adventurous among us could put together those kinds of armies without the fear that all the work would be wasted.
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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Von Cougar wrote:
But I do wish that GMT would lay it all on the table and let us know which sets they would be making.


They can't do that, because they don't know. They publish based on pledges to their P-500 system.
 
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Justin Borges
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Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying, I wish they could.
And in fact, if they listed all of the options on P500 now, then technically we would know.
It's not a matter of "can't" but "just won't," because that's not how they do it.
 
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Sifu
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Here's hoping that each new faction (Greeks, Eqyptians, Germanic Horde, etc.) has uniquely colored blocks - and also that wooden dice are included with the first expansion!
 
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Allen Doum
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Sifu wrote:
Here's hoping that each new faction (Greeks, Eqyptians, Germanic Horde, etc.) has uniquely colored blocks - and also that wooden dice are included with the first expansion!


That was already mentioned, but I've forgotten where and by who exactly. Probably Andy Lewis from GMT. Each new army will have its own color of blocks, and they will all be earth tones, so they will not overpower the art on the stickers.
 
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Kevin Duke
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I approached them about the idea of making a mini-expansion-- adding one "power" to the mix that could fight against one of the armies we have. I was told that something "similar" was already planned for expansion #2-- a bit later in period and paired with another later army (which means I may try to create my thought anyway and will post it here if i do.)


We know from RB that they --his team-- already have several hundred scenarios created for different nationalities of this specific period.

While I can appreciate the desire for GMT to "put the cards on the table" and line up the next-oh-- say 5 or 8 potential expansions for P500 use, try to think like a business. One expansion is getting near record commitments. Put six on the list and probably some more people will sign up (finding a period they prefer to Greeks/Persians) and some of those who already signed up for G/P will sign up for more than one-- but still, they will end up with 79 here, 93 there, 145 someplace else...and maybe none of the list actually gets 500 pre-orders, or it takes a long time to happen. One of the merchandizers' nightmares is losing customers by offering too many choices.

I could see them going someplace like putting TWO expansions up and making a game/vote out of which one gets produced first. Asking them to commit to a whole bunch is not fair to them-- or to Richard B. for that matter.

Somewhere in all this is a contract and/or agreement. GMT has committed to "Greeks v Persians," and RB can't sell that to anyone else. He still could sell designs for Nap or Mex War or Medieval or maybe even other ancient periods-- should Hasbro, DoW, Eagle, or someone else come to him with a check and a contract. So a commitment with GMT for a bunch of expansions would do two bad things for RB. It would take some of his potential sellable ideas and put them on hold-- waiting for enough orders-- and it would also discourage anyone else from picking up one of his designs, since it would be reasonable to fear over-saturation.

Let's try to be patient. If Greeks v Persians hit 500 today, it would still be late fall before it would hit the market. I'm figuring Christmas is likely. I doubt they will put expansion #3 on the list until they are close to finished with expansion #2's production.

So for those thinking about creating 'other' armies but holding back because GMT might create them later, you probably have at least a year to enjoy your creation and maybe more, regardless of what eventually happens.
 
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Justin Borges
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It's great seeing how well the first expansion is doing, I'm excited for it and the others.

But two things about your post, Kevin.
First of all, is it for sure that GMT ONLY has these first two sets on contract, and no more? Because even if they haven't announced them, it is possible they do, right? At least a couple more Ancients sets to finish out the period. If that's the case, then the following works.
What you say about announcing too many sets is true from a business perspective. It makes total sense. But, can they not announce ones they have already signed and paid for, without putting them on pre-order? Just to let the public know what's coming in the future, but only putting up one set at a time? That makes sense to me, and they wouldn't be losing any customers, any more than they would normally when people know "something" is coming out in the future.
But if they only announce one at a time, that's fine with me, I'm patient

Now, I find it quite interesting that you, who is against making variants of a game, can be so involved in creating your own scenarios and armies, etc. that are in the works already. Why can't you just leave the game the way THEY made it, scenarios and all, and wait for them to release these things?
Hrm. Interesting.

Anywho, can't wait to see what the P500 is at by the end of this weekend!
 
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Kevin Duke
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Justin,

1. I have no "for sure" information about any contracts or agreements GMT has with RB, other than what I see in the forums, with the one exception I mentioned in my posting.

If they have other commitments, I'd love to see them. The gist I took of the original question was people wanting a long list of a future production schedule which I doubt very much that they have.

2. My "battle" against the variant folks has primarily been aimed at the notion of taking this game and, without very much play-- in some cases without ever playing the game-- starting to add on new rules for either "more realism" or "more fun-- quicker play." In other words, taking what is here and making something really different. My interest in keeping the game as THEY made is centers much more on the engine. I certainly don't think we or anyone needs to freeze the game as is and say nothing can ever be added to it.

I would love to see more scenarios using the engine that we have-- there are plenty more battles in the Punic Wars or there-abouts which we could play using our existing units and rules and hardly changing anything. A few special rules to deal with an unusual circumstance or terrain does not bother me at all. Pages full of "special rules' which actually make a different game are what I have disagreed with (and as soon as you talk about facing, flank attack bonuses, etc, you are talking about a different game.)

Adding another nationality will certainly create some change, but does not necessarily mean changing the basic engine. I know you think you are tweaking me or catching me in a false place, but it's simply not there. I am not "creating scenarios that are already in the works." I am considering creating some scenarios--using the game as is-- and hoping to find a list of what scenarios are "in the works." As for creating an additional nationality that is "already in the works," you do not seem to have read my statement completely. I said:

Quote:
I was told that something "similar" was already planned for expansion #2-- a bit later in period and paired with another later army (which means I may try to create my thought anyway and will post it here if i do.)


I'm not going to violate the confidence of their statement on what exactly this means, but the "bit LATER in period and paired with another LATER army" is very significant and means the campaigns/scenarios I am thinking about will probably not be addressed at all. They are close enough that I can understand GMT not trying for both and also understand their interest--at this point in the life of the game-- of producing only "complete" games, versus a product that can't be played by itself. They have done some "you must have X to play this" expansions with other games and I hope they do that in the future with C&C, but right now it's not announced that tehy will.

And right now, all I am doing it "thinking about" and making some notes. If GMT had wanted the idea, I would need to get serious on putting it together because it takes a long time (or should) to do something like this. Since they aren't interested, I can kick back and play and so some reading.

I'm having a lot of fun playing the game as is and haven't finished the scenarios we have yet.
Yes, that may sound like another contradiction, but if you want to play that debate tactic it comes out, "Why are you welcoming more scenarios for the game engine we have when you haven't finished all the ones that came in the original game. Surely you can't try to paint me into that narrow a corner, can you? I've never been the sort of "purist" that some people are decrying here in suggesting that the armored box is a holy relic that will satisfy all our needs forever. Sure, I'd like to see more scenarios...that work with this game.

So two points in response-- 1, I'm not talking about changing the engine, and 2, I'm not talking about doing something that is already in the works.
 
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