Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
20 Posts

Android: Netrunner» Forums » General

Subject: Playing Original Netrunner against Android: Netrunner? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Nox Noxley
Germany
Waldstetten
flag msg tools
Hello,

A friend has already bought the original Netrunner several years ago and has decks for that.

Since I didn't buy Netrunner at that time, but I am considering doing it now with the new Netrunner, I would like to know of those of you, who played both, if the rules would allow playing an old deck against a new deck? Or have there been to important rules changes?

(The friend is notoriously short of money so there isnt much of a chance of him buying the new Netrunner soon, too.)

Thank you!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Tu
South Africa
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Old cards and new rules are pretty much completely incompatible, at least not in a way that'll be balanced. The new system has identities and factions that divide the card pool up so that some cards can't be used (liberally) with others. Limitations like those have changed the game pretty dramatically.

So... You could mix and match the old cards with the new ones, but it wouldn't be anything "official". So yeah, for the purposes of fun
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
General Norris
Spain
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
The rules are practically the same, except that Traces work differently. Not that there were many tracers worth playing, so I don't see why you can't just play one against the other.

The original game also had a much higher power level though. Watch out for Scaldan! =P
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nox Noxley
Germany
Waldstetten
flag msg tools
Thank you!

Do I understand you right that my friend will be having an easier time beating me with his old decks although not having identity cards?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
General Norris
Spain
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Not quite. If he just has some cards around there won't be much of a difference and he's likely going to be at a disadvantage. But if he has a competitive deck you have no chance =P

Anyways, I would first play with your Android Netrunner copy until you feel adventurous enough to try the original's cards.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Tu
South Africa
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nocturnus wrote:
Thank you!

Do I understand you right that my friend will be having an easier time beating me with his old decks although not having identity cards?


Hmmmm, that would be interesting to see! I like the idea! New vs old...!!

There were quite a few mechanics that are completely different (bad publicity, trace) but they're not bread and butter. And the old game didn't have any limits to the number of cards per copy, so you could have a deck of 30 card X and 20 card Y, if you wanted - so if you play you should rather stick to the 3 card limit like the new Netrunner.

Let us know how it goes if you do play new vs old! Sounds like fun!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gary Bergeron
United States
Sulphur
Louisiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tuism wrote:


So... You could mix and match the old cards with the new ones, but it wouldn't be anything "official". So yeah, for the purposes of fun


Tu, if you mean mix original with Android, what comes to my mind is the combo: Breaking News:

 



and I Got A Rock:


 


Score the News with a total of 3 agenda pts. Take an action...err click, sacrifice pts. and it's all over for daddy!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Bernardo
Taiwan
Taipei
flag msg tools
badge
CardboardEast.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The biggest problem might be that the original game had no card limitation. So you could have 5 copies of a card if you wanted. That means you could create a very unbalanced deck
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Tu
South Africa
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
evilpanda wrote:
The biggest problem might be that the original game had no card limitation. So you could have 5 copies of a card if you wanted. That means you could create a very unbalanced deck


A lot of ONR players I've spoken to enjoys the game with a 4 or 3 card limit, it's easy enough to impose that yourself if you're playing for fun.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Double Plus Undead
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tuism wrote:

A lot of ONR players I've spoken to enjoys the game with a 4 or 3 card limit, it's easy enough to impose that yourself if you're playing for fun.


The designer of the original game (Richard Garfield) stated in an interview that there actually was a 4-card limit. However, since I haven't ever been able to find a set of official rules which use this limit, I guess his memory's a bit foggy. Probably what he's thinking of is there was supposed to be a 4-card limit, but the game didn't stay in print long enough to put it into the rules.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
General Norris
Spain
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Garfield's memory failed him there, there was never a limit.

That said, in France a 1 in 15 format was popular because it required less rare cards to play, which were very hard to come by back then. I've looked at the decklist and it looked remarkably balanced.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Double Plus Undead
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
General_Norris wrote:
Garfield's memory failed him there, there was never a limit.


Yes, but that quote makes it clear that he intended to put in a limit, at some point.

I've never heard a convincing argument that Netrunner without card limits is better than Netrunner with them. Buuuuutttttt...since the rule was never made official, you can make a legal deck with 50 copies of the same card. Which, fortunately, is something I never have to worry about, because I never play the original Netrunner anymore. (Does anybody?)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gregory Pettigrew
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
pirate_chef wrote:
I've never heard a convincing argument that Netrunner without card limits is better than Netrunner with them.


It's just a part of the design implementation problem. Certain card concepts have to be balanced differently in 3CL vs. 4CL vs NCL. You see this in Magic since they started printing cards with duplicate text. Clearly Tim was never broken under NCL since they printed a duplicate card in Ice Age, thus allowing you to put 8 Tims in your deck, but some cards were still broken under 4CL and had to be Restricted or Banned.

NCL allows more tactical design on the deckbuilding side of things (Do I put in 3 Sure Gamble and 3 Easy Mark or 4 Sure Gamble and 2 Easy Mark?) but the more swing a single cardplay has, the more carefully one has to balance individual cards. The reason MTG has 4CL is that the game was designed with a card limit in mind ("Nobody's going to pay $20 for a single piece of cardboard") that turned out to be unenforceable. ONR and VTES were designed once WOTC realized that mistake and corrected for it in their card design.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
General Norris
Spain
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
etherial wrote:
The reason MTG has 4CL is that the game was designed with a card limit in mind

Magic wasn't designed with card limits in mind. The limits and the minimun deck size of 60 were introduced after the game was released.

Card limits are a safety valve to prevent the game from exploding or extreme decks from appearing. In a sense it isn't needed until it is.

1) It avoids feedback loops. The best way to pay for Loan from Chiba is another Loan from Chiba. Encryption Protocols protects other Encryption Protocols. Ice Destruction compounds Ice Destruction. These interactions are very dangerous and tend to produce ultrafocused decks.

2) It promotes variety.
Given the above and the fact that lesser options aren't needed, the number of different cards played is lower. Many Netrunner decks had only 6-7 different cards

3) It opens design space: Since feedback loops are reduced, you can explore cards that would break a no-limits design.

4) It's more acessible.
If you need 11 copies of Bodyweight Syntethic blood, a LCG format is difficult to implement at a reasonable price and a CCG suffers from a disincentive to trade, as well as an increased cost.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gregory Pettigrew
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
General_Norris wrote:
etherial wrote:
The reason MTG has 4CL is that the game was designed with a card limit in mind

Magic wasn't designed with card limits in mind. The limits and the minimun deck size of 60 were introduced after the game was released.


Reread the rest of that paragraph.

Some cards in ONR were not designed correctly, such as Loan from Chiba. But CL are not inherently a good idea. Just a design decision.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
General Norris
Spain
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
etherial wrote:
Reread the rest of that paragraph.

I did.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Double Plus Undead
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
General_Norris wrote:
3) It opens design space: Since feedback loops are reduced, you can explore cards that would break a no-limits design.


Yes. The alternative to no card limits is really boring cards. If you make all of your cards low power, then it doesn't matter how many you put in a deck! Then, all of your expansion sets are like Fallen Empires.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gregory Pettigrew
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
pirate_chef wrote:
General_Norris wrote:
3) It opens design space: Since feedback loops are reduced, you can explore cards that would break a no-limits design.


Yes. The alternative to no card limits is really boring cards. If you make all of your cards low power, then it doesn't matter how many you put in a deck! Then, all of your expansion sets are like Fallen Empires.


Cute. Doesn't explain VtES, though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Double Plus Undead
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
etherial wrote:
Cute. Doesn't explain VtES, though.


I've only played V:TES once (back when it was Jyhad), and I don't remember anything about it, so I'm in no position to criticize it. If they can make a balanced game with no card limits, that's an impressive feat. That doesn't mean that every CCG can do it, though, or should.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Rockwell
United States
Lynnwood
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pirate_chef wrote:
General_Norris wrote:
3) It opens design space: Since feedback loops are reduced, you can explore cards that would break a no-limits design.


Yes. The alternative to no card limits is really boring cards. If you make all of your cards low power, then it doesn't matter how many you put in a deck! Then, all of your expansion sets are like Fallen Empires.


Nah, you just play 15 copies each of the three best cards there are.

Card limits are critical to the deck construction game model, imo.
12 BodyWeight Synthetic Blood (draw 5!) and some Organ Donors was a really dumb money engine. And many things you could do because of no card limits were even more broken. Infinite Loans from Chiba and win fast.

Without card limits, your ability to make cards are super constrained, and constructed decks tend to use only very few different cards.

There is a reason that Commander is a popular Magic format. It requires you to use 100 different cards in your deck!

More different cards, and a greater portion of the cardbase being playable, leads to a more varied and fun game.




There were plenty of cool cards in original netrunner, and some broken ones, and lots of terrible ones too. If you allowed free reign of them in current netrunner you would disrupt the delicate balance of the current game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.