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Subject: Question about Throne Room rss

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Carlos Soto Power
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Sorry if it has been asked before, but: when you play Throne Room with Feast, can you play it twice or not? In other words: will you gain two cards, even though you can only trash Feast once? Since the card must be trashed I think the answer is NO. Is this correct?

Thanks
 
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You will gain 2 cards. The answer to this one is actually in the rulebook.
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David Goldfarb
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Feast does get played twice even though the second time it's played, it's in the Trash. Since the card gain from Feast is not conditional on the trashing, you do get to gain a card both times. Compare Mining Village, which says "if you do, +$2" (emphasis mine) and therefore can produce only $2 and never $4.
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J
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The question is understandable. Here is why you get 2 cards.

This is what Throne Room says

"Choose an Action card in your hand. Play it twice. "

This is what Feast says

"Trash this card. Gain a card costing up to 5 Coins."

So if you Throne Room a Feast it gets played twice.

Now when a card in Dominion is played the rule of Thumb is you must perform everything the text instructs you to in order starting top down. If a piece of text is impossible to fulfill (like drawing a card when you have no deck or discard pile left) it is ignored and you go to the next text.

In the TR- Feast case you play the first Feast

"Trash a card"
Card is Trashed
"Gain a card costing 5 or less"
Card costing 5 or less is gained.

Than the second feast is played

"Trash a card"
Card is already Trashed so ignore this text
"Gain a card costing 5 or less"
Card costing 5 or less is gained.

There are instances in dominion where Two steps are tied together but in these cases the card is worded

"Trash this card, if you do..."
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Carlos Soto Power
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Thanks guys, but I'm still confused blush... Finally I understand why TR works with Feast ("play it twice"), but now I don't understand why it doesn't work with Mining Village (e.g. trash MV two times to get +4 coins in total). Maybe is just a wording thing what makes it difficult to understand to me, but, if in both cases cards must be trashed in order to get their benefits; then, "play it twice" should apply to both of them". ¿What am I missing here?

Thanks for your patience.
 
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Chris Schumann
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Plainly, Feast does NOT say "if you do", so Feast does not have to be trashed in order to get its benefit.

Mining Village does say "if you do", so it does have to be trashed to get its benefit.
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Simon Kamber
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FinrondFelagund wrote:
Thanks guys, but I'm still confused blush... Finally I understand why TR works with Feast ("play it twice"), but now I don't understand why it doesn't work with Mining Village (e.g. trash MV two times to get +4 coins in total). Maybe is just a wording thing what makes it difficult to understand to me, but, if in both cases cards must be trashed in order to get their benefits; then, "play it twice" should apply to both of them". ¿What am I missing here?

Thanks for your patience.


Two details that are important:
- Throne room does not does not say "double it", it says "play it twice".
- A core principle when interpreting Dominion cards is to split the card text up into individual instructions, and execute them one at a time. Do as many as you can (i.e. don't stop just because one of them isn't possible).

Thus, the instructions on feast are:
- Trash this card
- Gain a card costing up to 5

If you play that twice, you get:
- Trash this card
- Gain a card costing up to 5
- Trash this card
- Gain a card costing up to 5

Even if you are unable to trash the second time, you are still able to fulfill the other 3 instructions (so you get two cards).

On the other hand, the instructions on Mining Village are:
- Draw 1 card
- Add 2 to your 'remaining actions' count
- You may trash this card
- If you DID trash this card, get +2 coins

If you play that twice, you get
- Draw 1 card
- Add 2 to your 'remaining actions' count
- You may trash this card
- If you DID trash this card, get +2 coins
- Draw 1 card
- Add 2 to your 'remaining actions' count
- You may trash this card
- If you DID trash this card, get +2 coins

Notice how the last instruction specifies that the +2 coins only happen if you did trash the card? There is your difference. If you trashed the card the first time (getting +2 coins), then the "if you DID trash this card" is not fulfilled on the second play, so you cannot get +2 coins again.



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Chris Kern
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Mining Village actually does create a special case that Donald refers to as the "lose track" rule. The Intrigue rules clarifications tell you how to work with MV/TR but the general rule isn't given until Dark Ages. So your confusion is justified -- according to Donald, if the clarification for Mining Village did not specify how it worked with Throne Room, the general rules in base and Intrigue would not be enough to figure out MV/TR.

(Technically the Lose Track rule applies to Feast also but it doesn't matter whether you can trash it twice for that card.)
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