Amin
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I introduced the Feast for Crows expansion to my gaming group. I thought it would be easy to get 3 other players from the group to get a game, but we got our last player at a last moment. At least it was playable, we couldn’t get more than 4 this week.

I introduced everyone to the system and then we randomly drew houses. Everyone wanted to try out House Arryn. I drew Stark, but thought that would be too easy with my previous knowledge of the game, so I took Lannister (I still haven’t gotten to play with Baratheon yet ).

Turn 1 I played quite defensive, setting up to guarantee holding KL. What’s funny is that we forgot to place one of my footmen on the map, in stoney sept. I kind of realized something was wrong because I was trying to set up my defensive lines around KL, but it seemed to be harder than normal. I should have double checked the map but it didn’t really occur to me, so I played the entire game down that one footman Not that the footman would have directly fought in the KL situation but he would have been a bridge, allowing me to march in reinforcements from the West in a string of marches. Now I had to empty Harrenhall to properly set up that connection, going down one power.

Baratheon, seeing KL secure, spread out to take the Reach and Crackclaw. Stark did not play optimally yet (first time playing the expansion) and so did not get to start his base house +1 card from turn 1. Arryn attacked Stark to burn his siege engine, but was attacked in return, retreating back to the Vale. Arryn managed to get enough power to get his +1.

Baratheon and I had a little cold war going the next few turns. I took the Reach from her and killed the siege, but she ended up patchfacing Tywin from me. With the help of a muster and experience playing Lannister, I was able to hold KL securely for a few turns. Part of that was skill and part of that was the fact that she hadn’t had experience with the game yet. If she had, holding it past 2 turns is very difficult. On the flip side, I didn’t have any good objective cards to cash in and so was dependent on the KL draw, except for 1 card. Baratheon had a lot of good objective cards and kept scoring 1 each turn. Seeing KL secure, she pushed through Harrenhall and into Riverrun, while Stark massed forces at Seaguard. It was a tense 3 way show down, but thankfully I had good ship support coming out of the adjacing ocean areas to help keep me secure. Stark had a card to get the arbor, but couldn’t get through my nest of ships, in particular with Arryn threatening him.

At one point Baratheon decided to go north to cash some cards and struck a deal with Stark to support her moving north. It was a lot of at table banter and Arryn realized he would be losing his ships (he had white harbor, but since that is the only port around there, his ships would auto retreat there and be captured by either stark or arryn). After the ships were retreated in port,. To prevent that takeover, he launched his army out of white harbor at winterfell, even though he was 1 point low of taking winterfell. He declined to leave a power token behind and so his ships in port were destroyed. His army lost, but he played littlefinger and gained a lot of power tokens, keeping his auto +1 going. It was a good example of how a military loss can still help one get objective points or at least making the best of a bad situation.

Baratheon ended up going for castle black and cashing a few objective points there. Stark cashed some cards as well, while I was stuck getting the auto +1. I did have a card to take crackclaw and attempted to take it without having the numbers, but was defeated with my gamble and lost my siege engine (actually now that I look at the photos, it was Harrenhall I attacked to try and waste one of her cards, but didn't get the right one, so I avoided cracklaw and took kingswood instead, to set up unraidable support out of the Reach). I ended up riding the +1 to victory, which I’m not sure would have happened with more experienced players. I don’t think Lannister should really be able to hold KL the entire game unless they have outside support (or Baratheon is going for the 3 or 4 card elsewhere). I don’t think they were meant to do that anyway. I was fortunate with the musters though, managing to make out my knights in KL and set up a secure defense. But if I was playing Baratheon, I could have taken KL at some point – for one, I would have done whatever possible to beat the Lannister ship, even if it meant losing battles, cards or units.

Having secured a safe support ring around KL, my last turn was rather aggressive. I was thankful that the card with no +1 marches came up, helping reign in Baratheon’s recently acquired Blade and hampering her troop movement with only 2 marches. Baratheon was low on cards and I waited until she moved north to cash in objective cards there before taking some territory from her (in case there was a tiebreak, so I needed more land territories). She had spent a while counting numbers and found it was impossible for her to take and to hold KL or Lannisport that turn. I ended up winning without the need for one, but managed for once to match Stark on land. If it had come down to tiebreak, I would have won, being higher on the Iron Throne.

Final score was Lannister 7, Stark 6, Baratheon 6, Arryn 5. Surprising that Stark got up to 6, despite having a poor start. If you look at the objective cards cashed, Stark and Baratheon had a ton cashed in. There is one card that comes out that would have pulled them down 1 and left Arryn and Lannister alone (as we didn’t have 2 or more cashed) but after the game we found that it was at the bottom of the deck, meaning it would never have been played in the game, because I don’t think the game can ever go 10 turns.

I will post a few photos here once this thread is approved. To note, this game took just over 3 hours to play! The problem was the Stark player, he takes absolutely forever. He was taking longer than people in the championship game we spending; I had to crack out the sand timer for that to speed things up midway. So if you have a player who likes to agonize over everything (including trying to count cards and predict every single potential battle that could occur in a single turn before deciding what to do with his raven) then the expansion doesn't deal with that. That being said, if it was the base game we'ld probably still be playing right now. Get a timer and enforce it from the start, to speed things up. It helps emphasize the fact that part of the game skill is being able to think efficiently, in particular, plan out your moves or potential battles in your head or on paper while other people are doing their moves and battles, to save time. If you want to spend forever agonizing over movements, play PBEM.


Photos:

Mid game play



Last turn start


Last turn end


End of game - played objective cards for each house
 
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H-H Boudje
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How did you feel it was comparing to the base game with 4? Or to the base game with 6?

Where did you found this expansion? Is there some place where the Print and Play is already for sale?

Best regards.
 
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Daniel Spaniel
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As you can see, I wasn't talking trash about Stark. That house is just too spread out for some players to manage quickly. Plus, when certain orders can't be placed, they can find themselves short on tokens. That's pretty rough for a new(ish)player.

If Baratheon doesn't take KL from Lannister in early rounds, Lannister can easily run away with it.
 
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Amin
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U is for Unicron wrote:
As you can see, I wasn't talking trash about Stark. That house is just too spread out for some players to manage quickly. Plus, when certain orders can't be placed, they can find themselves short on tokens. That's pretty rough for a new(ish)player.

If Baratheon doesn't take KL from Lannister in early rounds, Lannister can easily run away with it.


The player we had playing is just one of those guys that takes forever to play. He did the same thing with the base game, as I said, spends 10 minutes trying to make a Raven decision unless we use a timer or force him. But I agree that Stark does have more territories, making it comparatively longer to play tokens. Early on in the game the planning and resolution should be faster for them than later on as they get bogged down into more conflict and control even more lands. Lannister and Baratheon face off right from the start, so that adds some time to the mix as they will be having crucial movements and battles. I have my general Lannister orders and strategy set already, but you have to react to whatever Baratheon does in a particular game. I was lucky to hold KL beyond two turns. Given the card objectives I had, it would have been very hard to win that game with cards.

As for the game, I got a copy at the Days of Ice and Fire event.

 
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Samuel Wallace
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I feel like I'm missing something with the discussion of how long Lannister can hold King's Landing. I've seen several maps of the startup and it looks like Lannister has 2 FM in KL and 1 ship in Blackwater Bay, while Baratheon has SE+FM in Kingswood and 2 ships in Shipbreaker. The other surrounding territories-- the Reach and Crackclaw-- are open to start. Given these conditions, what's to stop Baratheon from easily taking KL Turn 1? They can do:
-March+1 from Kingswood for 6 strength attack, Lannister is max 6 if they Def+2, Support+1 (and if that support doesn't get raided from Shipbreaker). Stannis vs. Tywin, Baratheon wins ties. Lannister doesn't have any cutesy House cards to steal a win as far as I can tell.
-March+0 from Kingswood for 5 strength attack, raid from ships to kill support on Blackwater Bay, Lannister is max 4 with Def+2. Stannis or Renly beats Tywin.

So either I'm missing something, or the demonstrated setup is wrong, or the question is not "can Baratheon take KL first turn" but "should they". It seems like they can, and I'd say they probably should, since they'd automatically get the point, and they'd stand a decent chance of keeping KL next turn. If Baratheon uses March+0 on his ships, he can muster from Dragonstone, dropping a ship into port and upgrading to a knight or siege. The ship in port supports, to make Sallador work, while the siege/knight could take Crackclaw or even retake King's Landing.

Any clarification on this would be great! Can't wait for the expansion to be officially released.

 
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Amin
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diavolomaestro wrote:
I feel like I'm missing something with the discussion of how long Lannister can hold King's Landing. I've seen several maps of the startup and it looks like Lannister has 2 FM in KL and 1 ship in Blackwater Bay, while Baratheon has SE+FM in Kingswood and 2 ships in Shipbreaker. The other surrounding territories-- the Reach and Crackclaw-- are open to start. Given these conditions, what's to stop Baratheon from easily taking KL Turn 1? They can do:
-March+1 from Kingswood for 6 strength attack, Lannister is max 6 if they Def+2, Support+1 (and if that support doesn't get raided from Shipbreaker). Stannis vs. Tywin, Baratheon wins ties. Lannister doesn't have any cutesy House cards to steal a win as far as I can tell.
-March+0 from Kingswood for 5 strength attack, raid from ships to kill support on Blackwater Bay, Lannister is max 4 with Def+2. Stannis or Renly beats Tywin.

So either I'm missing something, or the demonstrated setup is wrong, or the question is not "can Baratheon take KL first turn" but "should they". It seems like they can, and I'd say they probably should, since they'd automatically get the point, and they'd stand a decent chance of keeping KL next turn. If Baratheon uses March+0 on his ships, he can muster from Dragonstone, dropping a ship into port and upgrading to a knight or siege. The ship in port supports, to make Sallador work, while the siege/knight could take Crackclaw or even retake King's Landing.

Any clarification on this would be great! Can't wait for the expansion to be officially released.



There is a garrison of 5 strength in King's Landing.
 
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Samuel Wallace
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Ah well, that clears it up! Thanks for the response.

 
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Can Bud
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Sabzevarian wrote:


There is a garrison of 5 strength in King's Landing.


Hmm I seem to recall having seen that the neutral force token for the Eyrie is in play in this expansion. Is that used to represent a regular force 2 garrison, or is that one also a special 5 str garrision like this?
 
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Daniel Spaniel
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canisin wrote:
Sabzevarian wrote:


There is a garrison of 5 strength in King's Landing.


Hmm I seem to recall having seen that the neutral force token for the Eyrie is in play in this expansion. Is that used to represent a regular force 2 garrison, or is that one also a special 5 str garrision like this?


The Eyrie garrison is strength 6!
 
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Samuel Wallace
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As a followup, it still seems like it's possible for Baratheon to take or at least seriously threaten King's Landing first turn. -1 on Storm's End, +1 on Kingswood, Raid on Shipbreaker Bay. First turn, move the knight to Kingswood, leaving power. This gives you a potential attacking strength of 8 (SE+KN+FM+Star order). Lannister is at 7 with the 2FM + Garrison, so they need to play +2 defense to reach 9 and hold you off (you win ties). If you go fully offensive and place the 0 march on Dragonstone, you can use your second move to take the Reach with the FM, and the third move to bring the Dragonstone FM to Kingswood.

The next turn, you'd have a support from the Kingswood plus 8 strength again, giving you 9 for the win. If a castle muster happened, you'd get to put a SE in the Reach, making the job even easier. A Stronghold muster would be more balanced--your siege gives you +3, but Lannister can upgrade 2 FM->2 KN, and could add units in Crackclaw if they took it. But it would still be even, so I think it works.

Thinking about this more, the other option would seem to be March+1 on Shipbreaker Bay, March +0 on Kingswood, and March -1 on Storm's End. Here, Lannister would have to have played Defense+2 on the ships-- anticipating this move--and Defense+1 on King's Landing. If he did play both moves, you're blocked, but you can still move to the Reach with your footman and win next turn. If he didn't play that exact combo, you can attack and destroy both ships with your move. A normal defense order on Blackwater would force you to move in both ships and use Stannis, but a support or raid would let you keep one in Shipbreaker (or send them both and keep Renly). The next turn, assuming no muster, no clash, and that the no support Westeros card doesn't come up, you have 2 ships with unraidable support in Blackwater. That would give you as much as 6 (Kingswood units) + 1 (The reach support) + 1 (march order) + 2 (Blackwater Bay)= 11 versus maximum 9 for Lannister. That 2 strength cushion is huge, because it lets you save your precious star order for a Dragonstone special muster, or save Stannis, use Renly, and upgrade the footman in the Reach.

BUT... this second "boats boats boats!" strategy is dependent on goodwill/negligence by Arryn. Arryn has the raven and a single boat in the Narrow Sea. If he sees Baratheon preparing to vacate Shipbreaker Bay (assuming a normal defense in Blackwater, which is probably the normal play) he could easily switch his order in the narrow sea from a likely Support or Raid to a March, which he's probably not planning to use all of anyway. This assumes he's special mustering in the Eyrie, which I would bet is standard practice, to give him flexibility on power tokens vs. units. Power is important for Arryn, but so is preserving his access to the sea, and sneaking into Shipbreaker would guarantee that for him for a while. He may well have an objective in the South--Crackclaw/King's Landing/Dragonstone/Kingswood/Storm's End, or the crazy 4 pt Arbor bid (Think of this: if he does take Shipbreaker, he can retreat to the East Summer Sea when Baratheon eventually takes back his sea. Then he just needs to retake Shipbreaker for one glorious moment to connect his ships, send a unit down to Starfall, and he can take the Arbor next turn. I haven't even played this game and already I love it).

Bottom line: the first strategy is an aggressive but fairly safe attack that gives a decent chance to take King's Landing first turn and a very good chance to take it second turn. The second mostly gives up on the first-turn attack but sets you up for a very strong position in the mid-game, albeit at a significant risk of backstabbing by Arryn. Obviously this could change quite a bit with varying objectives, but since King's Landing is so crucial to both Lannister and Baratheon, I figure that should be the subject of both houses' attention at the start.

Again, I haven't played and am just extrapolating from the pictures of the setup that I've seen, but it would be interesting to note whether this aligns with the general experience of people who have played.

/dork
 
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Amin
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Subbing in a march for Arryn would be a mistake, unless Baratheon and Arryn have some sort of rock solid deal. Baratheon cannot risk that Arryn might march down south, so they will have to pre-emptively march north, which takes focus away from KL and lets Lannister get easy points there for the next couple of turns, something bad for both of them.

General opinion has been that it is hard for Lannister to hold KL beyond two turns in a high level game. It will depend on the cards and diplomacy and once the game is released people will play out all the different scenarios and combinations and we will know for sure.
 
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Can Bud
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I am also very much confused about the first turn situation between Bara and Lannister.

I think that Bara can take KL first turn.

If Bara plays March+1 on Kingswood and the other two marches in Dragonstone and Storms End, he can bring all his units into Kingswood and then attack with +1, which would mean a total strength of 9 (SE + Kn + 2*FM + Star).

Bara can also raid from Shipbreaker, destroying any support from Blackwater.

This means than Lannister can defend with max 9 in KL (2*FM + Garrison + Star defense).

9vs9, Bara wins ties.

This may be suboptimal considering that he could have taken Crackclaw and the Reach, but I cannot think why Bara cannot take KL first turn. What am I missing?
 
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Amin
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Supply....
1 
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Can Bud
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aaaaarghh!! i knew i was missing something obvious
 
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Patrick Jestershand
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Wow, looks so complicated. Does anyone know a gaming group in Orlando Florida that has experience with it?
 
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