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Subject: The Professional Werewolf Game 2. Sign up for July game. Looking for 21 players. rss

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John Valvard
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Theme - A border Village, under assault by enemy (Evil) forces.

Roles - variations on standard. No conversion. No neutral players. All players will be given roletype 'Villager' in Cassandra, irrespective of starting professions.

The game will use the Cassandra movement system. Players may freely move between the locations during the day, but their location at Dusk determines their night action options, the nightkill options and influences the vote tally.
The first Professional Werewolf game can be found at http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/947616/

Location only matters at Dusk; players are asked not to move location between Dusk and Dawn. Tactical infringements will lead to severe penalties.

Players all begin the game with alignments (Good or Evil), but there are no roles; players will have and/or be able to gain Professions, giving them enhanced abilities to use particular locations, which will be vaguely equivalent to normal werewolf roles such as Priest, Seer, Sorceror etc. The game also does not have 'Wolves'. Some Evil players, but not all, will start with the Assassin profession, which allows the main nightkill.

Victory for Good:
Eliminate all Evil
or
Eliminate all Evil Assassins and the Assassin trainer.

Victory for Evil:
Achieve parity between Assassin Evil players and other players
or
All NPCs are eliminated

There are 7 NPCs in the game, each positioned at one of the locations. An Assassin may choose to eliminate an NPC instead of a player, subject to the same Assassination restrictions detailed in the Profession rules below.
If all NPCs are eliminated, Evil will immediately win, including the circumstance where the final evil Assassin and the final NPC are eliminated concurrently, as long as at least one Evil remains.

Each day, the village collectively needs to feed itself; food must be provided for all players currently alive, whether Good or Evil, and for each of the remaining NPCs.
On any day that there is insufficient food available, all food will be consumed and one NPC will be eliminated, in the following order:
Priest Trainer, Stone Cutter, Ranger Trainer, Cook, Soldier Trainer, Bones, Assassin Trainer.
It does not matter what the shortfall is, only one NPC will leave. Toughness does not affect whether an NPC will leave.
Any remaining food stores will be announced each Dawn in the thread.
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Locations


There are 10 main locations, as shown on the map above. All the main locations except the Woods connect to the Forum. The Woods may only be accessed via the Graveyard, the Graveyard and Mortuary interconnect.
There are two special locations not shown on the map -
* Shadows, which can be accessed from any main location except the Woods and is of use to Assassins, and hazardous to non-Assassins.
* Underworld, which can be accessed only from the Graveyard and is of use to Priests, Seers and Evil players and hazardous to non-Priests.

Players can move freely during the day, and immediate movement resolution will be implemented (Cassie and Avin permitting). Players are asked to remain stationary between Dusk and Dawn.
Locations effects only occur at Dusk/night, and night actions are restricted according to where a player has chosen to spend the night.

Forum - no chat
Players in this location at Dusk will have their votes doubled. The Mayor's vote is worth 3 when in the Forum.
If a player is alone in the Forum at Dusk, that player becomes the new Mayor, effective immediately.
Specialist role - Mayor

Kitchen - NPC: Cook
Food is inherently perishable, and surplus newly-foraged food cannot be carried over from one day to the next.
However, until or unless the Cook is eliminated, surplus fresh food will be made into non-perishable food at the end of each day, and this can be used on subsequent days to make up for shortfalls in fresh food.
After the Cook is lost, fresh food will always be consumed first, and if insufficient, stored food will supplement the total. However, if there is an excess of foraged food, 2 fresh food can be stored (ie made non-perishable) for every Chef in the kitchen, and any excess beyond that will be discarded.
Each player in the Kitchen does not require feeding, though the Cook still requires food.
An Assassin in the Kitchen may choose to use the action 'Spoil stores' to eliminate all non-perishable food, instead of making a kill attempt. If there are at least as many Soldiers in the Kitchen as the are as Assassins trying to spoil food, the attempt will fail and both Soldiers and Assassins learn that this happened.
If 1 non-Chef is alone in the Kitchen and the Cook is still alive, the non-Chef gains Chef status.
Specialist role - Assassin, Chef
Training to - Chef

Seminary - NPC: Priest Trainer
If 1 non-Priest is alone in the Seminary and the Priest Trainer is still alive, the non-Priest gains Priest status.
The first non-Seer Priest to be alone in the Seminary will, if the Priest Trainer is still alive, gain Seer profession.
Specialist role - Priest
Training to - Priest, Seer

Shrine - NPC: Holy Relic
All players in this location learn how many Evils remain, as long as the Holy Relic is still there.
If there are no non-Seers in the Shrine (ie all players there have and are using the Seer profession) then each Seer in the Shrine gets a clear view of a target player, learning that player's profession(s), alignment and location that night. A Seer view does not require the presence of the Relic.
While the Relic remains in the Shrine, no remote assassin kill can target a player in the Shrine (see Assassin details).
Specialist role - Seer
Training - none.

Mortuary
Players in this location view players who died in the previous 24 hours, as long as their bodies are available. All players present in the Mortuary at Dusk will learn the alignment of those dead players.
A player's body will not be available to the Mortuary after dying in Shadows, the Underworld or due to a Death Chant.
If only Priests are present in the mortuary (ie all players there have and are using the Priest profession), they will each receive full profession information on the dead players there, in addition to their alignments (and will incidentally also know that all other players in the mortuary must be Priests).
Specialist role - Priest
Training - none

Graveyard - NPC Stone cutter.
The Graveyard contains the graves of all players whose bodies rested in the Mortuary from the start of the game until the previous night. Each grave will have a gravestone as long as the Stone Cutter was present in the game when the body lay in the Mortuary. Gravestones will indicate a player's profession(s), but not alignment.
Gravestones may be read at any time, day or night (details will be given in the text each player gets on entering the room). There is no special action in the Graveyard itself, but players should note that the Graveyard is the only access to both Woods and Underworld, making it a strategically important site to monitor.
There is a one-way portal from Graveyard to the Underworld - available to all, but potentially fatal to non-Priests.
Specialist role - none
Training - none

Woods - no chat, no NPC
Each player in the Woods will forage to bring back food to the Village. Players may choose not to forage, but the default is that each player in the Woods will do so.
A normal player brings back 3 food.
A Ranger brings back 7 food.
The Marksman brings back 15 food.
A Chef brings back +3 food, irrespective of other bonuses, as long as the Cook or another Chef is in the Kitchen.
Specialist role - Ranger, Marksman, Chef
Training - none

Academy - NPC: Soldier Trainer
If 1 non-Soldier is alone in the Academy and the Soldier Trainer is still alive, the non-Soldier gains Soldier status.
The first Soldier to be alone overnight in the Academy will, if the Soldier Trainer is still alive, gain Lynch-Brutal (may kill one of his/her voters if lynched). Lynch-Brutal is not a profession, for the purposes of Seer and Stone-Cutter.
Lynch-Brutal is not blocked by Toughness.
Specialist role - Soldier
Training to - Soldier, Lynch-Brutal

Archery range - NPC: Ranger Trainer
If 1 non-Ranger is alone in the Archery Range and the Ranger Trainer is still alive, the non-Ranger gains Ranger status.
A Ranger who is alone on the Archery Range will, if the Ranger Trainer is still alive and there is no living Marksman, gain Marksman status.
Specialist role - Ranger
Training to - Ranger, Marksman

School - NPC: Assassin Trainer
If 1 non-Assassin is alone in the School and the Assassin Trainer is still alive, the non-Assassin gains Assassin status.
The first Assassin to be alone in the School will, if the Assassin Trainer is still alive, gain Toughness (will survive at most one lynch or Assassination attempt). Tough is not a profession, for the purposes of Seer and Stone-Cutter, and the player will learn if the toughness is used in a kill attempt. Toughness does not protect against Ranger-shot, Assassin Death Chant or Lynch-Brutal.
Specialist role - Assassin
Training to - Assassin, Tough

Shadows - no chat, no NPC
Accessed from all locations except Underworld and Woods, 'Shadows' exits only to the Forum.
An Assassin in the Shadows overnight can use the once-per-game-per-assassin 'Remote Kill' option.
Any non-Assassin in the Shadows overnight will die if there overnight at the same time as an Assassin. The body of a player who dies in the Shadows will never be found.
Specialist role - Assassin
Training - none

Underworld - no chat, no NPC
Accessed only from Graveyard.
A player who fully enters Underworld (there will be a 2-way portal room emptying onto the Forum in case players click into it by accident) is stuck there for the night.
A visitor to the Underworld may select a dead player to speak with; the visitor will be placed by the mod into the Forum at Dawn of the next day and will have a chat with that dead player from Dawn until Dusk.
The dead player talking to the visitor has the option of killing him/her, effective at the Dusk when the chat terminates. Such an attempt will fail on a Priest, and the Priest will learn full profession and alignment information of a dead player who attempts this kill. A player killed by the dead will not leave a body to be examined in the mortuary.
A dead player may be consulted in this fashion multiple times.
If multiple players enter the Underworld on the same day to talk to the same dead player, multiple one-to-one chats will be established with the dead player, and he/she will have the kill option on each visitor individually.
For this reason, although all players will be admitted to a communal deadchat when dead, there will be no spoilers given by the mod.
Assassination is not possible in the Underworld.
Seers
A Seer may, instead of speaking to a specific player, choose be admitted to the deadchat directly and in addition may make a view for alignment on any living player. Each dead player may then make a kill order, and if more than 25% of the dead (rounded down) so desire, the Seer will be killed, leaving no body for examination in the mortuary.
Evils
An Assassin or An Evil player in the Underworld may, if desired, use a Death Chant to eliminate a player or NPC at the expense of the Chanter's own life. Toughness and location of the target are irrelevant. Neither Chanter nor target would leave a body for examination in the mortuary.
Specialist role - Priest, Seer, Evil
Training - none
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John Valvard
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Professions
Each profession may be held by Good or by Evil players.
A player may hold multiple professions, but in that case must each night designate in modchat which one profession is to be used. Other professions held will be disregarded that night, other than for views by other players. A profession may be used on the same night it is acquired, if relevant (Chef, Assassin, Soldier).
Training to a profession is a passive event, and a player may still select an action (eg Soldier guarding or Assassin using remote kill) on the same night as training takes place.
A player may choose to 'turn off' a profession even if it is his/her only one, and a player may selectively underuse a profession - for example, a Soldier may exclude someone in the room from the guarding effect, or a Ranger may decline to forage more than the base amount (indeed, a player in the Woods is not obliged to forage at all).
Note that in these rules, a player described as Soldier refers to a player who has, and is using, the Soldier profession. (Similarly for all other professions)

Mayor
The Mayor's vote is worth 3 when in the Forum. There can only be one Mayor.
Each Dawn, the Mayor is advised how many living players have Soldier and how many have Ranger status. A player with both those professions will be counted in both totals. No distinction is made for alignment, and this total is not affected by the specific actions of the players that night.
The start Mayor will receive the D1 information.
The start Mayor is selected randomly from all players after assignment of alignments and other professions.

Priest
If only Priests are present in the Mortuary (ie all players there have and are using the Priest profession), they will each get full profession information on the dead players there, in addition to their alignments (and will incidentally also know that all other players in the mortuary must be Priests).
A Priest visiting the Underworld to converse with a single dead player cannot be killed by the dead, but will learn the dead's exact role and alignment if a kill attempt is made.

Soldier
There can be no Assassination in any location other than the Woods unless a player is targeted for Assassination by more Assassins than there are Soldiers protecting the player; any attempt will simply fail.
The Soldiers will learn that an attempt was made, Assassins making a Standard Kill attempt will learn that there were too many Soldiers but not the exact number.
Soldiers can block the Assassin food-spoiling ability in the same manner as they can block kills.
Note that Soldiers provide no protection in the Woods.
A Soldier may, if desired, specify a name or names (including NPC) to exclude from protection.

Seer
If there are no non-Seers in the Shrine (ie all players there have and are using the Seer profession) then each Seer in the Shrine gets a clear view of a target player, learning that player's profession(s), alignment and location that night.
A Seer view does not require the presence of the Reoic, but if the Reoic is present, a Seer in the Shrine will also learn how many Evils remain alive.
A Seer visiting the Underworld has the option of gaining full admission to deadchat until the following Dusk, but in doing so becomes liable to immediate death if 25% (rounded down) of the dead so desire.

Ranger
A Ranger in the Woods may shoot and kill another player in the Woods. Toughness will not protect a player from Ranger shots. This is an active option and cannot be combined with (for example) Assassin standard or remote kills.
It is possible for two Rangers to kill each other.
A Ranger taking a shot will only fail if the target is not in the Woods.
If a Ranger is taking a shot at another player, he may still forage.
A Ranger will also have a notion at Dawn of how many players were in the woods the previous night. Specifically, for each other player in the woods I shall roll a die and on 1-5 that player's presence is added to the total of players noticed. This will be done separately for each Ranger. Thus a Ranger may get an underestimate but will not get an overestimate.

Assassin
Standard kill
An Assassin may make a kill attempt on any player in the same location during the night. If there are fewer Soldiers in the location protecting the target than Assassins targeting a player, that player will die. If there are at least as many Soldiers as kill-attempts on a given player, the Assassins will each learn 'too many Soldiers' and the Soldiers will not be informed.
Remote kill
Once per game, each player with Assassin profession may make a covert kill attempt for a room they are not in by entering Shadows instead. This remote attack must specify both the player targeted and the room they are in, and the standard rules on Soldier protection apply. Remote kills stack with any other kill attempts on the same player in the same room. If the kill fails, there will be no explanation given to differentiate between too many Soldiers or target being absent. A remote kill attempt cannot be made in the Shrine until after the Relic has been eliminated. Simultaneous attempts on the Relic by Standard Kill from one Assassin and on a player by Remote Kill by another Assassin are not viable; the Remote Kill would automatically fail due to the presence of the Rekic at Dusk.
Special rules for the Woods
An attack on a player in the Woods is unaffected by Soldiers, but an attempt will fail if the target is absent or is the Marksman.
Special rules for the Underworld
Standard kill is unavailable in the Underworld.
A Remote kill attempt cannot target a player in the Underworld.
Special rules for the Kitchen
An Assassin in the Kitchen can spoil (destroy) all non-perishable food, instead of making an NPC or player kill attempt. Soldiers can prevent spoilage just as they can prevent kills. Remote spoilage is not possible.

Marksman
Only one player can be Marksman at any one time.
The Marksman is superior to a standard Ranger in the following ways:
- Foraging returns 15 food instead of 7.
- The Marksman cannot be successfully Assassinated in the Woods (though he can still be killed by a Ranger). Any Assassination attempt (other than a Death Chant) will simply fail.
- Instead of taking a shot at a player, the Marksman in the Woods may view for a specific player and will be told at Dawn if that player was in the Woods the previous night.
- The Marksman receives at Dawn the exact total of how many players were in the Woods, without the error potential in the information given to a Ranger.

Chef
A Chef forages an additional 3 food in the Woods (herbs, berries etc which extend the food ration) as long as the Cook or another Chef is in the kitchen the same night.
Each Chef in the kitchen can store up to 2 food (convert it to non-perishable) if there is surplus fresh food and the Cook has been eliminated.
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John Valvard
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Game start
At the start of the game there will be at least: 2 Soldiers; 2 Assassins; 1 Seer Priest; 1 Seer Priest; 1 Priest, 3 Rangers
After all professions and alignments have been distributed, the Mayor will be assigned to a player picked randomly by Cassie from the player list.
Note that a single player may hold multiple Professions (even at the start of the game).
There may or may not be additional Rangers, Assassins and Soldiers.
The number of Evils and pre-learned professions will be determined by the mod based on player number and not disclosed.
Some Evils will be 'Max Evils' and share a chat. Those not in the chat (Aux Evils) will start knowing the complete list of Aux Evil identities, but not the Max Evil identities. Max and Aux refers only to whether an Evil is in the communal chat, it indicates nothing about profession.
The village starts with at least 10 non-perishable food stored, the exact amount determined by the mod, dependent on the balance of starting professions and the number of players.


Dusk and Vote tallies
Cassandra's vote tally will be the only one published.
At Dusk, the moderator will apply the additional vote strengths for those in the Forum (including Mayor if present in the Forum).
LHLV will still apply to break ties on the amended totals.
The player dying by lynch will be announced.
In the event of the high vote-getter being Tough (via the School), the next in line will be lynched instead. No announcement to this effect will be made, though the Tough player will be advised that Toughness has been used.
In the event that the lynched player is lynch-Brutal (via the Academy), the Brutal-killed player and the lynched player will both be announced as dying together, but no further clarification will be given.
Brutal will not kill Tough, but will remove Toughness.
In the extremely unlikely event that the same player is both Tough and lynch-Brutal, Toughness will prevent lynch and Brutal will not be activated on that occasion.
Each player's night action options will be restricted by their location at Dusk (which will remain unaltered until Dawn, except for fatalities) and their active profession.
At Dawn, the amount of stored food will be announced, along with any player fatalities. NPC fatalities will only be apparent to players who visit an NPC location.

Rules clarifications, from Professional Game 1
Dusk will be at 4pm, Dawn at 5pm.
Queries and suggestions welcome.

Clarifications
Scheduling of dead stuff

D1 lynch will be in the mortuary N1, and have his stone carved.
N1 kills(s) and D2 lynch will be in the mortuary N2 and their stones will be carved (assuming the continued presence of the Cutter)
And so on.

D1 lynch will be buried at Dusk on D2, and his headstone erected for viewing by anyone in the graveyard from N2 onwards.
N1 kills and D2 lynch will be in the graveyard from N3 onwards.
And so on.

If the Cutter were to be lost (for example) on N3 - either from starvation or kill - then the last marked grave will be for the D2 lynch (and brutal, if applicable).


Action resolution
In this order:
All training
All views
All foraging and food storing
All kills, spoilage and NPC loss


Active and Passive events at night

A player may perform one 'Active' action each night and any number of 'Passive' ones. The Active may result from (Passive) training that same night.

Passive - can be undertaken by any player. If a player wishes not to benefit from the Passive effect of a room, that is permitted but should be specified in modchat. Apart from the Woodscraft information available only to Rangers and Marksman, these are all available to all players.
Training (School, Seminary, Archery Range, Academy, Kitchen)
Foraging (Woods)
Free food (Kitchen)
Vote enhancement, including Mayor (Forum)
Alignment view (Mortuary)
Evil count (Shrine, while Relic remains)
Woods count (Woods, only available to Rangers and Marksman)
Assassination immunity (Woods, only available to Marksman)

Active - require the specified Profession. At most one 'Active' option may be selected each night.
Guard - Soldier - unless otherwise specified, all players (+NPC) in the room are protected.
Standard Kill - Assassin - only valid if target in the same room.
Remote Kill - Assassin - Assassin must be in Shadows, must specify target and correct location.
Death Chant Kill - Assassin or Evil - Chanter must be in Underworld.
Spoilage - Assassin - Assassin must be in Kitchen
Shoot - Ranger/Marksman
Woods view - Marksman
Shrine view - Seer
Underworld chat - any player
Deadchat view - Seer
Mortuary view - Priest



Rules changes since Professional 1, listed here and incorporated above

Action resolution
Kills now come last, after foraging.
Resolution is therefore:
Training
Views
Foraging and food storing
Kills, spoilage and NPC loss due to food shortage

New locations
Two special locations not shown on the map -
* Shadows, which can be accessed from any main location except the Woods and is of use to Assassins, and hazardous to non-Assassins.
* Underworld, which can be accessed only from the Graveyard and is of use to Priests, Seers and Evil players and hazardous to non-Priests.

Shadows - no chat
Accessed from all locations except Underworld and Woods, Shadows exits only to the Forum.
An Assassin in the Shadows can use the once-per-game-per-assassin 'Remote Kill' option.
Any non-Assassin in the Shadows overnight will die if there at the same time as an Assassin. The body of a player who dies in the Shadows will never be found.

Graveyard and talking to the dead
This is completely changed, with the introduction of an Underworld location opening from the Graveyard, open to all players but with risks attached.
The gravestones in the Graveyard may be read at ANY time, by any player. (Details of headstones will be given in the text visible to any player entering the Graveyard.

Underworld - no chat
Accessed only from Graveyard.
A player who fully enters Underworld (there will be a 2-way portal room emptying onto the Forum in case players click into it by accident) is stuck there for the night.
A visitor to the Underworld may select a dead player to speak with; the visitor will be placed by the mod into the Forum at the beginning of the next day and will have a chat with that dead player until Dusk.
The dead player talking to the visitor has the option of killing him/her, effective at the Dusk when the chat terminates. Such an attempt will fail on a Priest, and the Priest will learn full profession and alignment information of a dead player who attempts this kill.
A dead player may be consulted in this fashion multiple times.
If multiple players enter the Underworld on the same day to talk to the same dead player, multiple one-to-one chats will be established with the dead player, and he/she will have the kill option on each visitor individually.
For this reason, although all players will be admitted to a communal deadchat when dead, there will be no spoilers given by the mod.
A Seer may, instead of speaking to a specific player, choose be admitted to the deadchat directly and in addition may make a view for alignment on any living player. Each dead player may then make a kill order, and if more than 25% (rounded down) of the dead so desire, the Seer will be killed, leaving no body for examination in the mortuary.
An Evil player in the Underworld may, if desired, use a Death Chant to eliminate a player or NPC at the expense of the Evil player's own life. Toughness and location of the target are irrelevant. Neither Chanter nor target would leave a body for examination in the mortuary.

Remote Kill by assassins
An Assassin who wants to use the one-time secret kill must be in the non-chat room 'Shadows'.
Shadows can be entered from any room except the Woods. Players exit Shadows into the Forum only.
Non-Assassins have no actions in Shadows, and will automatically die at Dawn if in Shadows overnight at the same time as any Assassin, of either alignment. The body of a player who dies in the Shadows will never be found.
A remote kill attempt cannot be made in the Shrine until after the Reoic has been eliminated. Simultaneous attempts on the Relic by direct presence and on a player by remote kill are not viable; the remote kill would automatically fail.

Seer views
Seer views can take place in parallel, much as priest views in the mortuary.
If there are no non-Seers in the Shrine (so all players there have and are using the Seer profession) then all Seers in the Shrine get a clear view of a target player, learning their profession(s), alignment and location that night (the location information is new).
Thus both Seer and Sorceror (or two good Seers, for example) could get views at the same time.

Start information
Aux Evils (those not in the Wolfchat) will start knowing each other but NOT the Max Evils. Max Evils will still only know each other. Thus the Evil Seer will have an active need to use views to hunt for the other Evils, and the Evil team cannot coordinate fully from D1 as happened in Professional Werewolf 1.

New profession - Chef
The Cook can train a single Chef each night. A foraging Chef gathers +3 food, as long as either the Cook or at least one Chef is in the Kitchen.
Each Chef in the kitchen can Store up to 2 food if there is surplus fresh food produced and the Cook has been eliminated.

Contradiction on spoilage resolved
An Assassin may spoil stored food in the kitchen OR make a kill attempt but not both at the same time.
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John Valvard
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Errata. None yet.
 
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Cassandra Project
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Player List According to Cassandra:
bkarrigan
bwt2q
greek2me
jamgar
kuchick
StatSig
TommyDanger
twomillionbucks

8 players are signed up.

To sign up for this game go to
http://www.thecassandraproject.org/jeremy/werewolf/game/9654...
 
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Walker
United States
Birmingham
Alabama
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"The significance of a person's life is determined by the story they believe themselves to be in." - Wendell Berry "If nothing lies beyond the pale of death, then nothing of value lies before it." - SMBC
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Thy mercy, my God, is the theme of my song, the joy of my heart and the boast of my tongue. Thy free grace alone, from the first to the last, has won my affection and bound my soul fast.
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Signed up pending updates to my status in RL during the time scheduled.
 
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Kyle M.
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California
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When in July were you thinking? End or beginning? Or middle?
 
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super genius
Canada
New Brunswick
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You're the bomb and you got a dope soul and hella ethics.
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One time, at a Buffalo Wild Wings in Jacksonville, but the nice one, not the one above the gas station, I ate 50 jalapeño poppers in two minutes. Everyone at the hospital was so impressed.
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I just signed up on Cassandra.
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Walker
United States
Birmingham
Alabama
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"The significance of a person's life is determined by the story they believe themselves to be in." - Wendell Berry "If nothing lies beyond the pale of death, then nothing of value lies before it." - SMBC
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Thy mercy, my God, is the theme of my song, the joy of my heart and the boast of my tongue. Thy free grace alone, from the first to the last, has won my affection and bound my soul fast.
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The shrine still concerns me, albeit less so than before. I can imagine an evil seer camping out there and gettings hints about the good seer that way.
 
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Nathan Woll
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Toledo
Ohio
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I just signed up on Cassandra.
 
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Kyle M.
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California
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twomillionbucks wrote:
The shrine still concerns me, albeit less so than before. I can imagine an evil seer camping out there and gettings hints about the good seer that way.


But someone camping there is obviously either a good seer or a bad seer, so you have a for sure evil if someone camps there (unless of course it's a cleared soldier who was sent there).
 
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Shadowatom wrote:
twomillionbucks wrote:
The shrine still concerns me, albeit less so than before. I can imagine an evil seer camping out there and gettings hints about the good seer that way.


But someone camping there is obviously either a good seer or a bad seer, so you have a for sure evil if someone camps there (unless of course it's a cleared soldier who was sent there).


In general, an evil seer is less valuable to the evil side than a good seer is to the good side. I think the trade is one evil will likely want to pursue.
 
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Do you really expect people to end up in the underworld shadows and possibly die there?

Now, if there was a chat at the underworld, and therefore the chance of possibly catching an assassin there, I could understand the part about non-assassins dying there better (though the above might have to be combined with a no-posting-at-night rule, to prevent the beans from being spilled regardless).

Perhaps for seers, restrict views to players in their area (much as assassin kills are) unless in the shrine, and perhaps don't give professions if not in the shrine?
 
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twomillionbucks wrote:
Do you really expect people to end up in the underworld and possibly die there?

Now, if there was a chat at the underworld, and therefore the chance of possibly catching an assassin there, I could understand the part about non-assassins dying there better (though the above might have to be combined with a no-posting-at-night rule, to prevent the beans from being spilled regardless).

Perhaps for seers, restrict views to players in their area (much as assassin kills are) unless in the shrine, and perhaps don't give professions if not in the shrine?


Do you mean shadows? Since no one in the underworld can die there exactly. (although there is the question of what happens first, the remote kill or the moving from the underworld to the forum?) They would open a chat with a dead player of their choice and have that chat open for one whole day. Shadows I don't exactly see any reason for a non-assassin to enter though...since they risk being killed if there with an assassin and it benefits them in no way unless they're an assassin themselves.
 
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I've heard too much good about the first one to not sign up.

(JAVAALLLLLLL. Are you going to run another awesome in-person game at the con this year? YES? YES?)
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Stat - yes.
(Hopefully)
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twomillionbucks wrote:
The shrine still concerns me, albeit less so than before. I can imagine an evil seer camping out there and gettings hints about the good seer that way.

I have to address this.

So - in a game with the potential for ANY players to set up private chats, a seer view is gold dust. Get a clear, you can set up an unbreakable circle-of-trust. Get several, and evil has no hope. Basically, a regular seer is vastly overpowered in a free-movement, multi-location game with private room chats. Realistically then, the game has to either limit the Seer ability (cloud it or make it harder to accomplish), limit the room chat ability or movement (which were pretty central to the feel of game I'm looking for) or dispense with the Seer altogether.

Clouding views (randomising accuracy, for example) doesn't appeal; I don't much like having dice determine something so fundamental.

Thus, to counter the vastly increased potency of a seer view, I chose to make views both more hazardous to attempt and harder to accomplish, but strictly accuate when a Seer does manage to get a view.

As an aside, note that one of the reasons for designing the Shrine and Mortuary with two-tier benefits was to give an alibi to any player choosing to be there; anybody can learn the basic information (number of Evils/alignment of the dead, respectively), but only specialists (Priest/Seer) can get detailed information (professions of the dead / view of a player). The basic information is nonetheless very useful; I know some players in Professional 1 were slightly exasperated not to have information on the dead, but all that was needed was for one player to go to the Mortuary and broadcast the results. Two, if the village is paranoid, and/or a Soldier to offset kill attempts.

****

Early game, I actually expect that a good Seer would prefer to go to the Underworld to get a view - certainly on the first night, unless the D1 lynch is an Evil, the underworld view is completely safe, and untraceable as well. As soon as there are dead Evils, the Seer is far more at risk going to the Underworld, however - this helps to balance things back again if Good gets a strong start.

Late game, as we saw in Professional 1, the players necessarily spread more thinly, and the Shrine once again becomes usable, if the Seer is still around.
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twomillionbucks wrote:
Do you really expect people to end up in the underworld shadows and possibly die there?

Answer - no, I don't expect it, BUT I didn't want Shadows to become a refuge for players trying to avoid being targeted, and - in terms of the implementation - didn't want the hassle of gearing entrance/exits to be only available to particular players (ie make entrances to Shadows only visible to Assassins). Hence - anybody can play at being a cool kid and go into the Shadows, but you are taking a major risk doing so if you are not actually an Assassin.

Quote:
Perhaps for seers, restrict views to players in their area (much as assassin kills are) unless in the shrine, and perhaps don't give professions if not in the shrine?

As per the previous post. I did think about giving Seers the option to get basic information on a player in their area, wherever they were in the game (though probably restrict to a chat-enabled area, or the Seer gets a free 'is this person here' ability in Woods/Forum/Shadows/Underworld as well) but this is still very potent. If you see anybody 'doing a Soldier action', that's as good as a free view of alignment and profession, and the Circle-of-Trust problem rears its head again.

When all is said and done, there is a great deal more accountability in a game like this, which can make it hard for Evil to hide without actively participating in helping Good.
Think of Pro1:
* riot got himself the brutal, but in doing so was exposed (at least to Tommy) as probably a start Soldier and thus probably Evil.
* Luckay prevented jage getting assassin-hood and killing the trainer, but in doing so risked looking as though he had an evil agenda, despite his very strong argument
* Heisen as priest wanted to miscall the dead information, but (because Dake/TFG was there as well) could only do so by generating a claim-war.
* Shadow tried to blend in to the Village, and even ended up foraging 7 food one night to do so, but was ultimately out of time, because too many Good players had proved their trustworthiness by NOT killing off NPCs they were guarding.

Honestly, the Seer ability really should be a fragile thing in this game, there is far more information available to players simply because there are so many behaviour options for everybody.
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Shadowatom wrote:
Do you mean shadows? Since no one in the underworld can die there exactly. (although there is the question of what happens first, the remote kill or the moving from the underworld to the forum?) They would open a chat with a dead player of their choice and have that chat open for one whole day. Shadows I don't exactly see any reason for a non-assassin to enter though...since they risk being killed if there with an assassin and it benefits them in no way unless they're an assassin themselves.

Not entirely sure what you mean.
In Shadows - the following options apply:
1) (Any player) can open a chat with a specified dead player.
Chat starts at Dawn, and the live player is placed into the Forum.
At Dusk, if the dead player has so decided, the live player will be killed, wherever they are, leaving a body.
However, if the live player is a Priest, such a kill would fail, and would give the Priest full information on the dead player. (NOTE - a Priest can of course solicit such an attempt, directly or indirectly, in order to get this information!)
2) (Seer only) can gain entry to deadchat.
Guest status in deadchat starts at Dawn, and the Seer is placed in the Forum.
At Dusk, if 25% of the dead players have so decided, the Seer will be killed, wherever they are, leaving NO body.
3) (Evil only) can undertake a Death Chant.
Evil Player nominates a living player. The Evil player and his/her target will die at Dawn and leave no body.

There will be no common room chat for players in the Underworld (if that was not explicit before, it is now!) so nobody is going to know who is actually there.
It's dark down there, you see
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Good stuff, Javal. Consider my fears assuaged.

cool
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Shadowatom wrote:
When in July were you thinking? End or beginning? Or middle?
Not got a specific date in mind, I'm aiming for a lull in my work, which usually hits around the end of June, so I guess I'm thinking towards the start of the month.
 
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edit: brilliant addition of the underworld. the assassins definitely needed a permanent way of killing people without a once-per-game remote kill, since otherwise it's virtually impossible to kill anybody.

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LuckayLuck wrote:
edit: brilliant addition of the underworld. the assassins definitely needed a permanent way of killing people without a once-per-game remote kill, since otherwise it's virtually impossible to kill anybody.

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The Death-Chant is a pretty extreme way to kill someone, since it loses an Evil as well (so is no help in terms of parity).
However, Evil does need some way to eliminate the Marksman if there are no Evil Rangers and the trainer has left. This is it.
Pretty much anyone except for the Marksman is fair game to an Evil Assassin, if judgement is used.

It also addresses the possible game-breaker for Good of generating a healthy store of Food on N1, and then having a universal Alamo-in-the-Kitchen strategy, lynching people who don't go there, and relying on the stores to keep the NPCs alive and the Soldiers to keep the Cook alive. Use an Evil to Death-Chant the Cook, and you break the Alamo.
 
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I just signed up on Cassandra to shoot Shush in the woods
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