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Sentinels of the Multiverse: Infernal Relics» Forums » Rules

Subject: Unbeatable nightmist? rss

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Mike Walko
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We ran into a situation where all the heroes but nightmist were incapacitated, and nightmist went into mistform. Neither the villain or environment deck were capable of destroying an ongoing card.

One of the incapacited heroes had the ability, the next time a hero does damage, it's plus one.

We just passed turns equal to the remaining damage, giving nightmist an additional+1 each turn, since nothing mentioned when those pluses expired, and killed the villain in one hit.

Is this a fluke,or did we play something wrong?
 
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Benj Davis
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I hadn't thought about the possibility of stacking that bonus damage, but I think it's legit.
 
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fba827 fba827
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sometimes you just get random combos that work really well in situations like that.
other times, you'll have villains or environment cards that destroy ongoing effects.
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Roberta Yang
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If the villain has some sort of workaround - for example, Voss's alternate win condition - then the villain can still win. If there are any environment or villain effects that make heroes damage themselves, then that will discharge the built up +1's even though Nightmist won't actually suffer the damage.

Otherwise, yeah, Nightmist and Visionary can just tank forever and autowin.
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P.D. Magnus
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It is a bit of a fluke. But it can happen with Visionary, too, if she's in her Cocoon and everyone else is incapacitated.

If you don't mind winning that way, then play it as written. Our houserule is that Mistform is destroyed if Nightmist is the only hero left conscious. Actually, having the houserule has meant that the situation hasn't come up.
 
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Matt Lernout
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Watch out for anything that destroys ongoings like Sedative Flechettes or Devastating Aurora! This combo will slowly grind out a lot of Villains, but a number of them have ways to break through and ruin Nightmist's day.
 
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trevor

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Yeah we had that come up too. We declared a loss, unless you don't mind getting a cheap as hell win.

We determined Plague Rat was running around destroying the town while Nightmist sat in Mistform and watched........
 
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Neil Edmonds
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There are many times where there are "cheap as hell losses" too. My group would probably call it a lame win; and then make a note to not game the system by deliberately using the combo again (eg - this villain and environment deck doesn't destroy ongoing cards; let's use Nightmist and Visionary!)

Consider it this way - perhaps when all is lost, Nightmist goes Mistform and learns the villain can't stop her; thus saving the day in the face of a dire situation. One could imagine multiple panels in a comic in which the ethereal Nightmist monologues while the villain bemoans the destruction of their carefully laid plans.

We auto-lose when the heroes can't do anything to damage the villain in a stalemate case. For example, Visionary can't cocoon and stalemate the Villain's ultimate triumph because all heroes aren't defeated. We assume the villain moves on and Visionary later leaves the cocoon to pick up the pieces (and feels bad about her comrades).
 
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Roberta Yang
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Meteor Storm in Wagner Mars Base can do the same thing against a wider range of villains. Most villains were given at least a small amount of hero ongoing removal, but a lot of them don't have ways of destroying environment cards.
 
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Matt Lernout
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salty53 wrote:
Meteor Storm in Wagner Mars Base can do the same thing against a wider range of villains.


Oh yes, we've abused this one many a time. The storm gives just about all the set up time you need and many villains just won't punish you for drawing it out as long as you want.
 
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Roberta Yang
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BakaMattSu wrote:
Oh yes, we've abused this one many a time. The storm gives just about all the set up time you need and many villains just won't punish you for drawing it out as long as you want.

Last time I played Wagner Mars Base, we used Meteor Storm to let Chrono-Ranger draw his entire deck, then play Eye on the Prize an infinite number of times to ping the villain's entire army to death.
 
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Matthew M
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You mean his entire deck except for one copy of Eye on the Prize. Otherwise it doesn't work.

 
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Roberta Yang
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Octavian wrote:
You mean his entire deck except for one copy of Eye on the Prize. Otherwise it doesn't work.

If it doesn't work with his entire deck - and I'll admit I'm not entirely clear on the timing rules for when a one-shot is discarded - then it's not going to work with his entire deck sans one copy of Eye on the Prize either. You're not thinking of Don't Dismiss Anything, are you?
 
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Matthew M
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Eye on the Prize doesn't get discarded until it's effects are resolved, so if there is nothing left in your deck/discard then you won't draw anything.

If you have one Eye on the Prize in your deck and the rest of your deck is in your hand then you can cycle two Eye on the Prizes infinitely.
 
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Roberta Yang
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Sure. You play the first Eye on the Prize, draw nothing, but it still lets you play a card. You play the second one, draw the first one. You play the first one, draw the second one.
 
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Matthew M
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salty53 wrote:
Sure. You play the first Eye on the Prize, draw nothing, but it still lets you play a card. You play the second one, draw the first one. You play the first one, draw the second one.


Ah...of course!
 
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Josh
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Octavian wrote:
salty53 wrote:
Sure. You play the first Eye on the Prize, draw nothing, but it still lets you play a card. You play the second one, draw the first one. You play the first one, draw the second one.


Ah...of course!


Appropo:

 
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Chris Beller
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We had something very similar come up in a game this evening. Except, along with the Mist Form, Amulet of the Elder Gods was also in play, allowing Nightmist to redirect damage (the first time she is targeted) to a different target.

We won, but only by a war of attrition. Very boring win, in my opinion...
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Everything between now and the next game is just killing time
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salty53 wrote:
Sure. You play the first Eye on the Prize, draw nothing, but it still lets you play a card. You play the second one, draw the first one. You play the first one, draw the second one.

You can't draw the first one as the effects of it have not finished resolving yet, playing the additional card and resolving the effects of it are also part of the "play a card" effect of the first card, Eye on the Prize wont hit the discard pile until the additional card has also resolved.

MythicalMino wrote:
We had something very similar come up in a game this evening. Except, along with the Mist Form, Amulet of the Elder Gods was also in play, allowing Nightmist to redirect damage (the first time she is targeted) to a different target.

We won, but only by a war of attrition. Very boring win, in my opinion...

A dedicated Sentinerd recently asked Christopher a question relating to this at Kant Con, you cannot redirect damage you are immune to. If you are not going to lose HP as a result of an attack then you are not taking damage and cannot redirect "the first damage dealt to you this turn", so being in Mist Form with the Amulet of the Elder Gods out nets you no bonus.
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Dylan Thurston
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I don't know why people think this is cheap: it seems quite thematic for me, and similar situations frequently arise in comics. Jean Grey was in a cocoon for years before returning more powerful than ever.
 
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I had the most awesome fun yesterday with Nightmist in Mist Form, watching as Akash'Butas remaining Limbs (somewhere around 70 hp) where eaten by pimped rats at the Pike Industrial Complex.
 
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