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Subject: The community here seems to have something against 4x games rss

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Daniel Gill
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What is it with you guys and eurogames? I've played so many of them and I find that they have an over-abundance of pieces that could often be replaced by just more sheets of paper and pencil notation.

Eclipse is rated really highly, and the GMT games like Conquest of Paradise and Space Empires 4X are rated much lower. I want to know why this is have most of you just never played them? Is there some dislike for these games?

Also are there more 4x games than the list indicates that just never were added in or is the list as small as it appears?
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Scott Wheelock
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Don't worry about ratings. Play what you want.
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Daniel Gill
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btw,

I learned the best trick with these games most people might already be aware but,

TWEEZERS

lol

You just can't play a game like this without them

Now you will have less headaches for anyone who has never played these games. First time I tried one of these games the person who brought had no tweezers. And.. yeah it was awkward.

// Any other tips with how to play with fiddly bits?
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Rick Rodrick
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Amazingly enough, the "community here" doesn't really have anything "for" or "against" any kind of games. Individuals in the community may have their biases but "the Community here" is an amazingly accepting place with gamers of nearly every ilk represented.

Don't see what you like? Post it. There seems to always be room for more!
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Blank Francis
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Maybe games that are so fiddly that they require tweezers to play effectively are not going to have a lot of mainstream appeal. Just a thought.

I think you'll find that the titles you've named are very well regarded by those who have the time and patience for them.
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Brook Gentlestream
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Many very cool genres were under-represented until recently. The success of many Fantasy Flight products as well as the wave of recent Kickstarter campaigns as given niche genres a very recent upsurge, and we find ourselves, for the first time in a long while, with some very interesting choices for zombie games, space games, and even 4x games.

As far as I know, the creme of the crop when it comes to space 4x games (my personal favorite type of 4x game) is Twilight Imperium (Third Edition), Eclipse, Empires of the Void, and possibly Hegemonic.

Twilight Imperium is big 4x killer though. Every time I pitch a space game or a 4x game to my group, such as Galactic Emperor, I get responses like "Why don't we just play Twilight Imperium instead?" Because I don't want to spend 8 hours losing one game!


Eclipse, I think, is largely popular because it doesn't compete with Twilight Imperium. Meanwhile, it specializes in aspects that Twilight Imperium does not touch (such as ship customization) and tries to use simpler streamlined mechanics to give a shorter game.

Due to Kicstarter, however, two more games are being introduced into the popularity of the general community. I know nothing about them, but they seem to be rising in popularity. They are Empires of the Void and Hegemonic.
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Ian Toltz
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lordrahvin wrote:
Because I don't want to spend 8 hours losing one game!


Ah, fair criticism. Might I suggest... winning? whistle
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Jay
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I LOVE 4x games... though I am an archaic one loving Twilight Imperium, I have room in my heart for all 4x games... plenty of room... must find friends who also like 4x games.... cry
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Martin Plourde
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The problem with 4x game, there are not enough of them...
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Scott Nelson
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I think the last X might be the reason eurogamers don't like to play them: eXtra-long. Seriously, player elimination is a downer with a longer game, when a typical eurogame gives you hope of winning till the end (if designed accordingly).

Most publishers don't sell enough of them to make them cost efficient.
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bort
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Hovercraft wrote:
btw,

I learned the best trick with these games most people might already be aware but,

TWEEZERS


Hmmm, that would not have occurred to me. Eclipse was one of the first games I bought, was very new to the hobby, it was on a top list. Tried to set it up once and play, too fiddley. I'll get back to it one day, for now, there are more fun games to play with friends.

About the supposed bias against these sort of games, I've seen no evidence of that in the short time I've been here. I would say its not THE most popular genre here, but its well represented I think.

One day I will have a look for a more accessible game in this style, no hurry, lots of games to get thru first.
 
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Clinton Coddington
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rrodrick wrote:
Amazingly enough, the "community here" doesn't really have anything "for" or "against" any kind of games. Individuals in the community may have their biases but "the Community here" is an amazingly accepting place with gamers of nearly every ilk represented.


+1

This has been my experience with this fantastic community over the last 6 years.
 
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J C Lawrence
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I don't find any of the four Xs interesting by themselves, let alone in combination.
 
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Daniel Gill
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Eclipse and Twilight Imperium are super popular and highly rated games. I totally understand why.. but they're also very large to get to the table, and expensive.

It seems like a kind of game people like a lot, and I was under the impression that these games were made from former classics from like the 80s I guess I don't understand the story on these games

They largely came from PC games? but I don't understand where the popularity comes from

I was under the impression that Conquest of Paradise and Space Empires and GMT had the prestige with these kinds of game but this doesn't seem to be the case

Where is the popularity coming from ?
 
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Brook Gentlestream
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The term comes from computer games, but not the popularity.

Seriously, Twilight Imperium is a damn fine game. That's why its popular. It has robust but fairly streamlined rules (all things considered) for trade, fleet movement, combat, and politics. Very few games have rules for politics like Twilight has.

The whole game has a "cold war" feel where everyone feels they need every military advantage they can get, but nobody wants to attack for fear of annihilating reprisal. Everything, EVERYTHING, stands on a tense razor's edge as all players maneuver for advantage in each area of the game but nobody really uses that advantage for fear of leaving themselves open. All the while, minor territorial skirmishes become frequently common even while we work desperately to avoid a costly war.

There are many races in the game, and each race plays very differently and has its own background story. Due to the all the different things you can do, and different ways there are to win the game, and the sheer length of the game and the amount of stuff going on, the entire game feels like its telling a story -- a lively, epic story with races we start to empathize with because we can recognize their archetypes from various sources in science fiction literature.

It's not popular because of its theme, so much as because that particular theme demands a lot. It demands that while we play, we be reminded of the great history of all space opera that came before in literature, TV, and games. And we want it to include everything - races, politics, economy, territory, technology, spice, evolution, wormholes, hyperspace, evolved humans, psychics, everything! So a game that claims to actually meet that demand is worthy of exceptional notice... and scrutiny.
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Samo Oleami
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We have to express utmost concern at the level of thought shown in this thread. Not only we deny accusations, the notion of "4x games", "eurogames" and other concepts is completely alien to our knowledge. As we don't know they exist, we have nothing against them, we just go with The Flow. Stop resisting, join The Flow. It's warm and safe.

Yours truly
The geekherding committee.

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"To herd is good, to think is baaaaad".
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Richard Ham
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CLICK THIS BEAGLE if you're looking for in-depth gameplay video run-throughs! :)
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I really like 3 of the 4 X's, if that counts
 
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Brook Gentlestream
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rahdo wrote:
I really like 3 of the 4 X's, if that counts


Exploring is really tough in a board game.
 
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clearclaw wrote:
I don't find any of the four Xs interesting by themselves, let alone in combination.


Don't the Xs in 18XX stand for Xpand (your track network) and Xploit (the stock market)?
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David C
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Hovercraft wrote:
btw,

I learned the best trick with these games most people might already be aware but,

TWEEZERS - and non-drowsy antihistamine


FTFY.
 
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Richard Would
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I do not know what a 4x game is which makes it hard for me to be biased against them.
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David C
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rrodrick wrote:
Amazingly enough, the "community here" doesn't really have anything "for" or "against" any kind of games. Individuals in the community may have their biases but "the Community here" is an amazingly accepting place with gamers of nearly every ilk represented.

Don't see what you like? Post it. There seems to always be room for more!


While always accepting, the near fever pitch that erupts when anything from Stefan Feld gets released, almost drowns-out everything else.
 
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M M
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Martin518 wrote:
The problem with 4x game, there are not enough of them...

How many X's do you need?!?
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Scott Hill
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Is a 4X game one where you drink crappy Australian lager before, during, and after playing it?
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James Austin
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sorry, you've lost me. what the hell is a 4x game?
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