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Subject: Guide to jumping rss

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Jesse Catron
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There is some confusion about jumping due to the inadequate and poorly written rulebook. Here is some clarification that I hope will help and not make things worse. I can see how the rule book can easily be misinterpreted.

Requirements for jumping:
-two swim cards. These could be two basic swims, a basic and a double swim, or two double swims. You may not use a single double swim on its own to jump.

-a legal hex to land on. You may not land on a rock or a waterfall hex. This is why a basic swim right and a basic swim left doesn't work for jumping since you would land in the waterfall.

-no rock hexes in the path of your jump

-a waterfall hex must be between the hex you start your jump and the hex you land on. (You must jump over a waterfall during the jump). When jumping with a double swim and a basic swim or two double swims, you don't have to start your jump adjacent to the waterfall hex.

Results of jumping:
-one fatigue card (added to your discard pile)

-movement from the hex you started your jump to the hex you land upon. This is the sum of the two swim cards you used to jump. This is 2 hexes for jumping with basic swims, 3 hexes for a basic and a double, and 4 hexes for two doubles.

-it is possible and acceptable to jump over more than one waterfall hex when using a double swim+basic or two double swims. This still only results in one fatigue. Fatigue is incurred by the act of jumping not the number of waterfalls or spaces jumped.

-if the waterfall hex you jumped over contains a special icon, add the appropriate card to your discard pile.

-ignore anything else in the path of your jump between the hex you started from and the hex you landed on. This includes bears and special icons on normal water hexes. You are not actually entering these hexes but are jumping over them. Special icons on the waterfall hex itself is the exception and is not ignored while jumping.

Feel free to ask any other questions on jumping here. This will help me make the FAQ as complete and thorough as possible. Thanks for playing Salmon Run and I apologize for the confusing rule book.

*edited for clarification
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Garry Rice
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Thanks ALOT for this post Jesse! That last bullet was not what I was expecting or had understood from the earlier posts...appreciate you spelling it out like this.
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Jonathan Chaffer
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Thank you for the clarifications! This is definitely the piece of the rulebook that needs the most attention, and the explanations here both clear up problem situations that have come up and simplify the rules from the perspective of the learner. Excellent.

This one surprises me, though:
drktron wrote:
-ignore anything else in the path of your jump between the hex you started from and the hex you landed on. This includes bears and special icons on normal water hexes. You are not actually entering these hexes but are jumping over them. Special icons on the waterfall hex itself is the exception and is not ignored while jumping.

If this is the ruling, that's fine and dandy, but it seems a fiddly exception to introduce for a very rare situation (jumping using double swim cards and also passing over other icons in the middle of the jump).

When I'm teaching the game, I don't even introduce the concept of "jumping" per se, but rather talk about what happens when your pawn passes a waterfall hex (you can't stop there and you must take an extra fatigue), which is quicker for new players to grasp. There are edge cases I must then clarify (such as trying to cross a waterfall with a single double swim), and this ruling adds one more edge case I'll have to cover. Oh well; not too big a deal.

Thanks again for answering our questions.
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Mike P
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drktron wrote:

-it is possible and acceptable to jump over two waterfall hexes when using a double swim+basic or two double swims. This still only results in one fatigue. Fatigue is incurred by the act of jumping not the number of waterfalls or spaces jumped.


Thanks for the post. This really clarifies jumping. One question just for completeness sake. I assume you can jump over 3 waterfall hexes in one jump with 2 double swims? Very rare case, I know, but possible on board 5H, from the rapids space with 2 double jump lefts.
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brian
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Thanks for the summary of answers, this helps tremendously. I do agree with Jonathan that the rule where you ignore icons is a bit unintuitive.
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Mike Malley
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Jesse - Your explanation for why you can't use a swim left and a swim right assumes that they're both basic swims, which leaves the question of one or both of them being double swims open.
 
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Kevin Smith
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JonBob wrote:

This one surprises me, though:
drktron wrote:
-ignore anything else in the path of your jump between the hex you started from and the hex you landed on. This includes bears and special icons on normal water hexes. You are not actually entering these hexes but are jumping over them. Special icons on the waterfall hex itself is the exception and is not ignored while jumping.

If this is the ruling, that's fine and dandy, but it seems a fiddly exception to introduce for a very rare situation (jumping using double swim cards and also passing over other icons in the middle of the jump).
When I'm teaching the game, I don't even introduce the concept of "jumping" per se, but rather talk about what happens when your pawn passes a waterfall hex (you can't stop there and you must take an extra fatigue), which is quicker for new players to grasp. There are edge cases I must then clarify (such as trying to cross a waterfall with a single double swim), and this ruling adds one more edge case I'll have to cover. Oh well; not too big a deal.
Thanks again for answering our questions.

This surprises me a little also.
I'd think it'd be a little more consistent to simply award cards for every icon passed over, regardless of whether the move is a normal swim or a jump.
And I'll definitely second the thanks for answering our questions.

Kevin
 
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Pat Gagnon
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Thank you very much. This clears it up for me.
 
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Jesse Catron
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fanaka66 wrote:
drktron wrote:

-it is possible and acceptable to jump over two waterfall hexes when using a double swim+basic or two double swims. This still only results in one fatigue. Fatigue is incurred by the act of jumping not the number of waterfalls or spaces jumped.


Thanks for the post. This really clarifies jumping. One question just for completeness sake. I assume you can jump over 3 waterfall hexes in one jump with 2 double swims? Very rare case, I know, but possible on board 5H, from the rapids space with 2 double jump lefts.


Yes you could jump 3 in that case. That would be an epic jump!
 
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Jesse Catron
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caffeinehead wrote:
Jesse - Your explanation for why you can't use a swim left and a swim right assumes that they're both basic swims, which leaves the question of one or both of them being double swims open.


Yes I was referring to basic swims. Jumping with right and left swims is permissible if one or both of them is a double swim ( assuming they meet the other jumping criteria).

I will edit the wording.
 
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Mark Jimenez
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Would this be another correct way of looking at jumping?

The first jump card must get you to the waterfall you are jumping. If there is a special icon in that hex then you take it.

If you jump over other special icons (in or out of other waterfalls other than the first card target), then those don't count.

The most special icons you can take in a single jump is 2 (one for the waterfall, one for the destination hex).

Some examples/notes (not considering obstacles):
* You are attempting to jump a single waterfall you are adjacent to. You must start with a basic swim.

* You're 2 water hexes away from a waterfall to jump. If you were to start a jump from here, you must play a double swim first. If there is a special icon in the water hex before the waterfall hex, you don't get that effect. You take the effect of an icon in the jump waterfall, and if you finish the jump on a special icon hex, then you take that effect.

* You are attempting to jump 2 adjacent waterfalls and you are adjacent to the first waterfall. You can jump with a single into the first waterfall, then MUST finish with a double. OR you can jump with a double and finish out with a double or single. Again, you only take waterfall icons for the first jump waterfall hex, and of course if your jump completes on another special icon, you take that icon too.

* You can extend the previous example with a 3 chain of waterfalls to jump.

* There's no way to jump 3 waterfalls when you start 2 hexes away.
 
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Phil
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mgamer72 wrote:
Would this be another correct way of looking at jumping?

The first jump card must get you to the waterfall you are jumping. If there is a special icon in that hex then you take it.

I don't think so. If you want to play a double first, and then the single to jump over the waterfall there's nothing stopping you.

mgamer72 wrote:
The most special icons you can take in a single jump is 2 (one for the waterfall, one for the destination hex).

What if you jump over 2 waterfalls in a single jump that both have icons in them, and the destination hex has an icon, there's 3 icons right there.

mgamer72 wrote:
* You are attempting to jump a single waterfall you are adjacent to. You must start with a basic swim.

* You're 2 water hexes away from a waterfall to jump. If you were to start a jump from here, you must play a double swim first. If there is a special icon in the water hex before the waterfall hex, you don't get that effect. You take the effect of an icon in the jump waterfall, and if you finish the jump on a special icon hex, then you take that effect.

* You are attempting to jump 2 adjacent waterfalls and you are adjacent to the first waterfall. You can jump with a single into the first waterfall, then MUST finish with a double. OR you can jump with a double and finish out with a double or single. Again, you only take waterfall icons for the first jump waterfall hex, and of course if your jump completes on another special icon, you take that icon too.

* You can extend the previous example with a 3 chain of waterfalls to jump.

I think you're reading too much into the rules above as far as what order the cards have to be played. So long as the sum of the spaces moved gets you over the waterfall hex(es) you can play them in any order, although if there are rocks or depending upon what special icons are in certain waterfall hexes it may be advantageous to play 1 first then another, e.g. a right then a forward vs a forward then right.
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Phil
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mgamer72 wrote:
Would this be another correct way of looking at jumping?

The easiest way to look at jumping is simply this:

- you play 2 swim cards (singles, doubles, wild, any combination of these)
- as long as the sum of the movement of those cards moves you over a waterfall hex(es) you're good, provided there are no rocks along your path, there is at least 1 waterfall hex in between your start and end hexes, and the end hex is a valid location.
- you only follow the special icons on the waterfalls themselves, and the destination hex.

Other than that, it doesn't matter if you start adjacent to a waterfall or not, if you end up adjacent or not, if you jump over multiple hexes or not.
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Harold Tessmann III
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A few more questions (cause my friend owns the game and I don't have the printed rulebook handy):

- Does jumping take an entire turn or can you still play a third card?
- If you can play a third card, any restrictions on whether you must jump first or last in the turn? (Obviously you can't play the first card of a jump, play a non-jumpy card, then play the second card of the jump.)
- If you can play a third card, you would take an additional fatigue for the third card, right?
- You cannot play three cards as part of a jump, right? So normally, a swim right, swim left, swim forward would move you two squares ahead (assuming no obstacles), but you could not play these three as a jump to pass a waterfall?
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Phil
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MacMog wrote:
A few more questions (cause my friend owns the game and I don't have the printed rulebook handy):

- Does jumping take an entire turn or can you still play a third card?
- If you can play a third card, any restrictions on whether you must jump first or last in the turn? (Obviously you can't play the first card of a jump, play a non-jumpy card, then play the second card of the jump.)
- If you can play a third card, you would take an additional fatigue for the third card, right?
- You cannot play three cards as part of a jump, right? So normally, a swim right, swim left, swim forward would move you two squares ahead (assuming no obstacles), but you could not play these three as a jump to pass a waterfall?

I believe its
- You can still play a third card
- no restrictions
- Correct
- Correct, you could play one before or after your jump, but your jump is 2 of those cards
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Harold Tessmann III
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farsidehobbes wrote:
MacMog wrote:
A few more questions (cause my friend owns the game and I don't have the printed rulebook handy):

- Does jumping take an entire turn or can you still play a third card?
- If you can play a third card, any restrictions on whether you must jump first or last in the turn? (Obviously you can't play the first card of a jump, play a non-jumpy card, then play the second card of the jump.)
- If you can play a third card, you would take an additional fatigue for the third card, right?
- You cannot play three cards as part of a jump, right? So normally, a swim right, swim left, swim forward would move you two squares ahead (assuming no obstacles), but you could not play these three as a jump to pass a waterfall?

I believe its
- You can still play a third card
- no restrictions
- Correct
- Correct, you could play one before or after your jump, but your jump is 2 of those cards

Yeah, I should've mentioned that I ask those questions not because I don't know the answers, but because I don't know if the rulebook clearly and adequately answers the questions. If not, they would make good additions to the FAQ.
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Harold Tessmann III
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drktron wrote:
-no rock hexes in the path of your jump

[…]

-ignore anything else in the path of your jump between the hex you started from and the hex you landed on. This includes bears and special icons on normal water hexes.

What about those thin rock outcroppings along the edges of some hexes near the sides of some boards? Those block normal movement (unless we played it wrong…) but can you jump over them?
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Ted Groth
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MacMog wrote:
drktron wrote:
-no rock hexes in the path of your jump

[…]

-ignore anything else in the path of your jump between the hex you started from and the hex you landed on. This includes bears and special icons on normal water hexes.

What about those thin rock outcroppings along the edges of some hexes near the sides of some boards? Those block normal movement (unless we played it wrong…) but can you jump over them?


Someone else asked about whether these outcroppings (which can form at the border between two tiles) create a barrier to movement. Personally, I would say yes that they are a barrier, but I haven't seen a definitive answer, and can't find that thread to see if has been answered since.

No you definitely can't jump over just the rock outcropping. Whether you can jump over such an outcropping while also jumping over a waterfall hex would depend on whether these outcroppings are considered as barriers to normal movement.
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Tradewinds Ted wrote:
MacMog wrote:
drktron wrote:
-no rock hexes in the path of your jump

[…]

-ignore anything else in the path of your jump between the hex you started from and the hex you landed on. This includes bears and special icons on normal water hexes.

What about those thin rock outcroppings along the edges of some hexes near the sides of some boards? Those block normal movement (unless we played it wrong…) but can you jump over them?


Someone else asked about whether these outcroppings (which can form at the border between two tiles) create a barrier to movement. Personally, I would say yes that are a barrier, but I haven't seen a definitive answer, and can't find that thread to see if has been answered since.

No you definitely can't jump over just the rock outcropping. Whether you can jump over such an outcropping while also jumping over a waterfall hex would depend on whether these outcroppings are considered as barriers to normal movement.

It was answered that the art does indeed form an impassable line across the hex. So you cannot jump over it either.
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Jesse Catron
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MacMog wrote:
drktron wrote:
-no rock hexes in the path of your jump

[…]

-ignore anything else in the path of your jump between the hex you started from and the hex you landed on. This includes bears and special icons on normal water hexes.

What about those thin rock outcroppings along the edges of some hexes near the sides of some boards? Those block normal movement (unless we played it wrong…) but can you jump over them?


The outcroppings block movement including jumping. The outcropping can be thought of as land (riverbank) between the hexes.
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Colin Gillespie
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Got the Game on Monday an I'm really excited to play it. My wife is from British Columbia and we will be taking a trip out to the coast this summer, so it seems like an especially good fit for out family. I'll admit, the jumping rules were a bit unclear for me as well. here are my specific questions:

1: Why does it say that "A salmon may not move onto or directly jump over a Rock hex"? (emphasis added) in what way would a salmon indirectly jump over the rocks?

2: Is the only use for junping to get past the waterfalls? in the rules, it states that "A Bear doesn’t affect you if you jump over
it.", but if you jump or if you hit a bear, the result is the same, i.e. a fatigue card. Am I to take it to say that while jumping over a waterfall, if you jump over the bear, you do not get an extra fatigue card?
never mind, read your other posts and I think I get it.
 
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coligill wrote:
Got the Game on Monday an I'm really excited to play it. My wife is from British Columbia and we will be taking a trip out to the coast this summer, so it seems like an especially good fit for out family. I'll admit, the jumping rules were a bit unclear for me as well. here are my specific questions:

1: Why does it say that "A salmon may not move onto or directly jump over a Rock hex"? (emphasis added) in what way would a salmon indirectly jump over the rocks?



No, there is not.
 
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Jesse Catron
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Say there is a rock hex directly above you with a waterfall on each side of it. You can't jump with forward+forward (directly over the rock)but you can jump with a right+forward or a left + forward (skirting around the rock).
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Mark Jimenez
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farsidehobbes wrote:
mgamer72 wrote:
Would this be another correct way of looking at jumping?

The easiest way to look at jumping is simply this:

- you play 2 swim cards (singles, doubles, wild, any combination of these)
- as long as the sum of the movement of those cards moves you over a waterfall hex(es) you're good, provided there are no rocks along your path, there is at least 1 waterfall hex in between your start and end hexes, and the end hex is a valid location.
- you only follow the special icons on the waterfalls themselves, and the destination hex.

Other than that, it doesn't matter if you start adjacent to a waterfall or not, if you end up adjacent or not, if you jump over multiple hexes or not.


Here's why this definition of jumping doesn't sit well with me, with regards to your positioning pre-jump:

Let's go back to a single waterfall, 2 hexes away. If you play a basic swim then a double swim to get over the waterfall, then that seems to be NOT a jump - what that really seems to me is a basic swim, then an attempt to jump with a single double swim, which (by the 2 card requirement for a jump) is illegal.

Aren't the plays of each card atomic, except for when 2 cards are declared for a jump?

Re: special icons, if I jump over multiple waterfalls with special icons, do I get all of those effects?

Thank you!
 
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Phil
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mgamer72 wrote:
Let's go back to a single waterfall, 2 hexes away. If you play a basic swim then a double swim to get over the waterfall, then that seems to be NOT a jump - what that really seems to me is a basic swim, then an attempt to jump with a single double swim, which (by the 2 card requirement for a jump) is illegal.

Aren't the plays of each card atomic, except for when 2 cards are declared for a jump?

Re: special icons, if I jump over multiple waterfalls with special icons, do I get all of those effects?

Thank you!

But it is a jump since you're playing the 2 swim cards to perform the jump. It doesn't matter where the first card moves you in relation to where the waterfall hex actually is, only that the sum of the movement moves you somewhere on the other side of the waterfall hex (and there are no rocks, etc.).

With jumping, you do not have to swim up to the waterfall hex and then jump over it landing on the hex immediately on the other side, you are jumping out of the water from wherever you are and landing on the other side of the waterfall. I could be 3 spaces from a waterfall, play 2 double swims, and land on the other side of the waterfall. Or I could be adjacent and play 2 double swims landing 3 hexes after the waterfall.

Plays are atomic, but like you said, except for when 2 cards are declared for a jump, so that means your example is a valid jump.

I believe I read that you do get all of the effects for any, and all, waterfall hexes you jump over.
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