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Subject: Simultaneous Bishop/Church cards... which is played first? rss

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Lee Borkman
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In the circumstance where two (or more) players acquire bishop/church cards simultaneously (ie, during the same "allocation" by a single active player), which player should use their church card first?

thanks,
LBB
 
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Lee Borkman
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louper wrote:
At no point in the game do players acquire cards simultaneously - everything is done in a particular order.


Okay... so if the active player gives themselves a church card, and another player gets one from the public space, the active player actually receives theirs first... is that right?

On a related matter... we have only played Biblios as 2-player, so we shortcut the play, like so...
The active player allocates:
* 1 card to themself
* 1 card to their opponent
* 1 card to the auction pile

Question... are there any nuances we are missing by bypassing the public space? (apart from the exact timing of church cards, obviously)?


 
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Matthew Roskam
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As soon as a church card is acquired by someone, it is played. So if the controlling player picks it for themselves, they immediately adjust the values.
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Steve Duff
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Bjork wrote:
Okay... so if the active player gives themselves a church card, and another player gets one from the public space, the active player actually receives theirs first... is that right?

On a related matter... we have only played Biblios as 2-player, so we shortcut the play, like so...
The active player allocates:
* 1 card to themself
* 1 card to their opponent
* 1 card to the auction pile

Question... are there any nuances we are missing by bypassing the public space? (apart from the exact timing of church cards, obviously)?


Yes, your shortcut is changing the play. Cards are assigned one at a time, and only after all cards are assigned do the opponents take their cards.

Say the three cards are these, this should be the result in your 2 player game:
1) gold card to auction
2) church card to public space for opponent
3) church card for dealer
3a) dealer adjusts dice

All cards are now allocated, so in turn order remaining players take cards from public area.
4) Opponent takes church card, adjusts dice.

With your shortcut, the opponent is adjusting the dice in 2, before dealer is doing his adjustment in 3.

As Todd says, in the case where multiple church cards were assigned to the public area, the opponents will still be choosing them one at a time.
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Lee Borkman
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:

Yes, your shortcut is changing the play. Cards are assigned one at a time, and only after all cards are assigned do the opponents take their cards.


Actually, that sounds like we are playing it properly, once my confusion about the order of play for the church cards is addressed. To summarise... the active player has to play/discard their church card first, then the opponent has to play/discard theirs.

We *are* playing it so the active player has to decide on the fate of each of the three cards individually as they are taken from the draw pile. We are simply bypassing the redundant (in 2-player game) public space and putting that card directly in front of the opposition. As long as we always have the active player resolve their church card before the opposition resolves theirs, all should be well.

Or am I completely insane??
Thanks very much for your help, everyone.
LBB
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Neil Christiansen
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That is fine, Lee.

I do think it works better with 3 than 2-players, but you are right the pulic spot served little purpose with 2.
 
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Lee Borkman
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chris1nd wrote:
I do think it works better with 3 than 2-players, but you are right the pulic spot served little purpose with 2.

Interesting. I think it's a wonderful 2p game. I'm trying to imagine it with 3, and trying to figure out if and when I could find a third ;-)

Thanks,
LBB
 
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Evan Watson
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I have only played this 2 player, and we find it is very easy during the allocation phase to forget which card you are on. We have many times gotten to the end of the draw pile and had an odd number of cards remaining. So we learned to draw 3 cards and lay them face down in front of us on our turn, then, in the order we drew them, pick one up and allocate it, then pick up the second and allocate it, and then same with the third. That way we don't lose track. Maybe that doesn't happen to anyone else, but we seem to struggle with it occasionally. shake

Oh, and this game is very big on misdirection. If you get a church card, you might change the value of a die to make your opponent think you are collecting that color (if you increase the value) or that you aren't (if you decrease the value). If you decrease the value of a color early on, you might be able to build up cards in that color (without much competition from your opponent because he thinks a) you aren't collecting it or you wouldn't have devalued it, and b) he doesn't want it because it is at a lower value than other colors) and then increase the value of that color later on, when you've gotten enough points to favor a win. And you can make false bids, just to jack the price up on your opponent if you think he really wants a card placed for auction. By wasting his money on that card, he has less gold to spend on another card later on that you might really want. There's all kinds of sneaky stuff you can do to mislead your opponent. But, the game is tricking you a little, too, because you omit a certain number of randomly selected cards from the deck at the beginning, and you never really know what is in the draw deck. How many blue cards are in play? Does my opponent have a bunch, or are there several in the pile omitted from play? We're still figuring out the basic strategies of this game but we really like it. And it plays really fast.
 
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