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Subject: Rules Feedback rss

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Christopher Dearlove
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Chelmsford
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SoRCon 11 23-25 Feb 2018 Basildon UK http://www.sorcon.co.uk
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Re: Rule feedback
Collecting figures in units and rolling dice for unit versus unit goes back decades in historical figure wargaming. Of course there even the multiple figures you see represent many men each, so there's no reason to roll a die per figure. I'd take a look at what's out there in that area.
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Greg
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The more dice you roll the less relevant each extra one becomes.
Going from 1D6 to 2D6 increases your average roll from 3.5 to 4.47
Going from 2D6 to 3D6 increases your average roll from 4.47 to 4.96
So one consequence of this system is that if you have a leader, cover offers a smaller bonus. Is that intentional?

High DV units may be practically invincible. If the DV is two points higher than the attacking unit the odds of totally ignoring the attack is 5 in 6. The multiple dice choose highest system will make this much more extreme (as more dice are rolled results become more consistant so if both sides are rolling (best2D6)+value the value becomes even more important).

I'd question the purpose of having seperate figures for units that are mechanically represented as a single entity. Why not just have one base with several models on it? Put differently, what does it add to the game that you can move the individual figures in a unit in different directions?
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Christopher Dearlove
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[q="x_equals_speed"I'd question the purpose of having seperate figures for units that are mechanically represented as a single entity. Why not just have one base with several models on it? Put differently, what does it add to the game that you can move the individual figures in a unit in different directions?[/q]

It may or may not be relevant that in the UK, in the area of ancient figure wargaming, there's a movement at the moment from a set of rules generally known as DBM to one often referred to as FoG. (There are other rulesets of course, I even know people who still play WRG 6th.)

DBM based figures in elements with 40 mm frontage and depth that varies by type, and with 1 (elephants, chariots) to 5-8 (hordes) figures per element. (Those are the unusual numbers, 2 to 4 is most common.) Because DBM was common, and no one wants to rebase everything, other rulesets, including FoG, use similar basing.

Now a big difference between DBM and FoG is that in DBM elements are independent. It's most efficient to move blocks of elements, and there are costs in e.g. mixed types of troops. And real costs if your elements scatter. But any unit (a block of elements) is a temporary concept. In FoG on the other hand, units are predefined, with multiple elements (not many, a single figure number). And they are kept together (as much as possible).

In this regard DBM is the oddity, because its predecessor (WRG rules) had units like (though not exactly the same as) those in FoG.

Conclusion? Draw your own. But it may be worth looking at them. (They use multiple dice - one per element in DBM - but not combined using a maximum function. I'd also add that fully understanding the emergent effects of DBM's command rules just by reading not playing is not going to happen.)


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Greg
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I've played a lot of DBM, so if you want to have a discussion using it as an example go right ahead I haven't played FoG though, it's been a while since I've done any wargaming so I'm not familiar with more recent changes.

I'd argue that you don't roll unit vs unit in DBM, you roll for each element. In theory nothing (other than an aversion to terrible strategic decisions) stops a single element wondering off to the opposite end of the table and having no further influence on how combats involving its unit go.

I don't understand why you'd want models seperately based in a game where the rules mandate that they must always stay together. Isn't that just an inconvenience? I can see why you'd do it if you wanted to reuse models from a different game or if different combinations of models made different units so that you can have more vareity of things for the same cost - but those are cost saving measures by the players rather than things that postively contribute to the experience of the game. I don't see why you'd design around that.
 
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Greg
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If you're looking at doing hard numbers you might find this site helpful:
http://anydice.com/program/1a79
 
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