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Subject: Herr Totenkopf rss

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clemens kremer
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In the comments section of the Kickstarter there is a more or less lively discussion about one of the heroes in the game, Herr Totenkopf:



Now since not everyone follows the kickstarter comments I was interested in the oppinion of my fellow Geeks. The arguments against his name are:

a) It just sounds dumb (at least to a German). If the authors intended the guy to have a menacing or bad-ass name, they failed ! Worse, Herr Totenkopf is just plain silly. I don't think I can convey just how awkward this sounds in German as a name (unlike, say, the Red Skull in English, which sounds cool)...

b) Since he is a 'hero' that comes with the SS platoon it cunjures assosiations with the Totenkopft division of the SS. Not only were these guys heavily involved in warcrimes against civilians on the eastern front, their members were drawn from Totenkopfverbaende which were gaurds at concentration camps. Not everyone will make this connection (I did not, until the discussion got underway) but it does leave a sour taste in my mouth.

Seeing as it would be very simple to change the guys name now, I would advise DPG to at least reconsider...

On a more or less unrelated note, I noticed that one of the German heroes is called Panzerknacker While that is an OK nickname and probably describes what the hero will be good at, I would bet that 90% of Germans will think of the Beagle Boys from Ducktales first when they hear his name (they are called 'die Panzerknacker').



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Jake Rose
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And yet folks are clamoring for French Resistance Fighters. Shouldn't playing SS and Gestapo against partisan forces be exactly what they want? Frankly that aspect of the war was very brutal and disgusting. The SS and Gestapo were very brutal in anti-partisan warfare, and the partisans themselves had a less than spectacular humanitarian record in their dealings with collaborators. Yet this was a hugely requested addition...

shake

A game based on a Hollywood-ized version of WW2 can handle a German villain with a silly name. My suggestion would be for folks to deal with it.

I saw in the KS comments where someone actually wants to not have Wittmann included because he was an SS officer. That is just silly. Should we re-write history so that some other unit gets credit for the battle at Villers Bocage?

At some point people, even the people of Germany, need to accept that the SS was part of WW2 and therefore are going to have a place in a military game using WW2 as a background. Yes, there were some real evil SOBs in the SS. Including SS units and silly German names does not glorify those evil people. Having historically accurate uniform and vehicle markings does not glorify evil SOBs.

It isn't like they are including a 'Lets kill Prisoners at Malmedy' scenario.
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Rudy Van den Broecke
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I understand the commotion the names might/will bring. It would be better to name all main characters after a movie caracter.

Also I agree with the fact that there shouldn't be any swastika's (crosses) in the game. It's asking for problems in germany, maybe something that resembles it, but not the original.

I would suggest that the german "backers" come up with some suggestions. They know best what will work or not and is accepted.

Concerning Wittman, I liked the idea of taking Luitenant Gruber of "allo allo" as inspiration for him. But he probably will not be known enough.

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Ken K
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I concur... if it's not too late to change the name to something less cliche and silly, they should do it.

[EDIT] I wonder if they could cross-over with Tannhäuser and acquire the name Von Heizinger?
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Christophe Muller de Schongor
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I don't get all of this.
First of all, we are not american, so maybe Red Skull is plain stupid, but we foreigners find it cool.
So for me, as a french, Herr Totenkopf makes a good naz bastard name.

And now there is questions about putting nazi's symbol away? Why?
The game is a mix between historical accuracy (hence the unit badges) and action movie, which themselves do have unit symbol or swastikas.
The debate is nonsense...
Then the SS will have to wear pink camo because black uniforms are to recognizable?
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clemens kremer
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@all : No one (at least not me) wants to remove symbols, or units or stuff from the game. No one wants to ignore history, we all know that the SS were part of the German forces in WWII and that they should be included in this game. We are all on the same page that the mix of historical and fictional is what makes the game awesome !

All I wanted to say is that the name is relly silly. For me 'Mr. Pink' or 'Sgt. Fuzzyboots' would be an improvement over 'Herr Totenkopf'...

And while (for the sake of argument) playing as the Totenkopft Division (which you are not in this game!) might not be an issue for you it might be for someone else.
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Arne Kaiser
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The issue is a law in Germany that forbids the use and display of nazi symbols, including the swastika and the SS rune. If the product is intended for distribution to Germany, then the developer should check what is permitted and where the limit between "glorification of national socialism" and "historic depiction" lies.

That being said, "Herr Totenkopf" does sound just over-the-top ridiculous. But maybe if he is to be included in the zombie expansion, it would be okay...
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Christophe Muller de Schongor
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Quote:
Devil Pig Games 19 minutes ago
Hi, i'm back from Barcelona, it's a great city, so... LET'S ROCK THIS LAST WEEK !!
About Totenkopf we can do everything ! We eared you and work on a new name. Herr totenkopf will make a come back another time...

End of name's issues' story
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Greg S
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How about "Herr Wolf", or "Herr Schnauzer"?

Since they're going for the cinematic feel, may as well use stereotype-like names, right?!

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Frank Müller
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I am native German speaker and I say: Totenkopf is super as a hero name.

All the qualms the TO has about the name are absolutely not understandable to me. This intro wargame is alot more about cinematic, comics depiction of WW2 and thankfully not about anal historical or name accuracy. I would love for example if they have an american hero called "Cpt. Texas", a french heroine "Sophy Lorraine" or an english hero called "Big Ben" etc.

I mean we have even Cthulhu, zombies, war apes and some battlemechs in the extended counter mix, how can Totenkopf be wrong?
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mark feldman
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I'm not a man now, Sergeant. I'm a soldier in command of men. If you ever meet me when I'm just a man, you may have to use a little charity.
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Herr Klausener from the movie Outpost:Black sun. He looks like he's been brought back from the Dead. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1418712/plotsummary?ref_=tt_ov_p...
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Rob Arcangeli
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How about Herr Flick?

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clemens kremer
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enpeze wrote:
I am native German speaker and I say: Totenkopf is super as a hero name.

All the qualms the TO has about the name are absolutely not understandable to me. This intro wargame is alot more about cinematic, comics depiction of WW2 and thankfully not about anal historical or name accuracy. I would love for example if they have an american hero called "Cpt. Texas", a french heroine "Sophy Lorraine" or an english hero called "Big Ben" etc.

I mean we have even Cthulhu, zombies, war apes and some battlemechs in the extended counter mix, how can Totenkopf be wrong?


I know this (probably) was not what you were implying, but I would like to point out that I am not anal about history, quite the opposite. I only got into this game because of the Cthulhu stuff. I still find Totenkopf a cringeworthy name...
Everything we have seen from DPG so far has been stellar and I have 100% confidence in their vision. Whatever they will choose will be great. One heroes name ultimately has zero impact on my enjoyment of the game. Even if I wont like the final name, I can just play without that hero.
Peace
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Alex R
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What the heck is Cthulhu?
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Martin Gallo
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PzrLehr wrote:
What the heck is Cthulhu?
I hope you are kidding. If not, I would Love to craft you a proper answer but I fear that the whispering from the shadows has obscured the truth of reality and there are strange puddles all over my house.
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Alex R
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martimer wrote:
PzrLehr wrote:
What the heck is Cthulhu?
I hope you are kidding. If not, I would Love to craft you a proper answer but I fear that the whispering from the shadows has obscured the truth of reality and there are strange puddles all over my house.


Huh?
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Christophe Muller de Schongor
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PzrLehr wrote:
martimer wrote:
PzrLehr wrote:
What the heck is Cthulhu?
I hope you are kidding. If not, I would Love to craft you a proper answer but I fear that the whispering from the shadows has obscured the truth of reality and there are strange puddles all over my house.

Huh?

Well, so much for the humour.
Try a horror mythology invented by Lovecraft and then used and worked by many authors after.
Wikipedia is your best friend.
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Martin Gallo
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XofMdS wrote:
PzrLehr wrote:
martimer wrote:
PzrLehr wrote:
What the heck is Cthulhu?
I hope you are kidding. If not, I would Love to craft you a proper answer but I fear that the whispering from the shadows has obscured the truth of reality and there are strange puddles all over my house.

Huh?

Well, so much for the humour.
Try a horror mythology invented by Lovecraft and then used and worked by many authors after.
Wikipedia is your best friend.
Given my circumstances at the time (we lost power yesterday and I was pattering away on my phone in the dark) I thought I dungood.
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Christophe Muller de Schongor
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I was adressing to Alex, not you, Martin.
I find extremely strange that there is still someone here:
- ignoring what/who Chtulhu is
- has enough guts to post the question here
(both at the same time)
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Alex R
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Cthulhu:
I wiki'ed the meaning of the word; never heard of it. But now I know and really don't care .
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Ondrej Kocnar
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Der Kaiser wrote:
The issue is a law in Germany that forbids the use and display of nazi symbols, including the swastika and the SS rune. If the product is intended for distribution to Germany, then the developer should check what is permitted and where the limit between "glorification of national socialism" and "historic depiction" lies.

That being said, "Herr Totenkopf" does sound just over-the-top ridiculous. But maybe if he is to be included in the zombie expansion, it would be okay...


Yes, it should be taken into account and also all other people should be burdened by the German specifics too much.
I consider their laws quite strange, they even banned Wolfenstein 3D years ago. I bet you really glorified nazism by shooting down hordes of nazis shake
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clemens kremer
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okocnar wrote:
Der Kaiser wrote:
The issue is a law in Germany that forbids the use and display of nazi symbols, including the swastika and the SS rune. If the product is intended for distribution to Germany, then the developer should check what is permitted and where the limit between "glorification of national socialism" and "historic depiction" lies.

That being said, "Herr Totenkopf" does sound just over-the-top ridiculous. But maybe if he is to be included in the zombie expansion, it would be okay...


Yes, it should be taken into account and also all other people should be burdened by the German specifics too much.
I consider their laws quite strange, they even banned Wolfenstein 3D years ago. I bet you really glorified nazism by shooting down hordes of nazis shake


Please lets not go down that road ! There was a lengthy unproductive discussion during the Up Front KS allready. The German laws are what they are. We can't change them, we have to respect them (just like we have to respect the laws of any other nation). The game designers allready excluded swastikas from the game (from the get go)... See the cleverly disguised swastika in Herr Totenkopf's picture ? Doing so is a clever buisiness decision as it opens up the German market for your product, plain and simple. This whole treat is allready a waste of precious internet space (I regrett staring it in the first place), please don't make it worse
Peace
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John Middleton
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Lol - If your people made the laws, they have the power to change them.
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clemens kremer
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I am not a politician and last time I checked no party I could vote for (not even right wing) had 'legalise the swastika' on their agenda... So no, I can't do anything about it.
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yeah? well… y’know, that’s just like, uh… your opinion, man…
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many years ago I went to the movies, watching "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow". great movie btw. the auditorium was full of people in good mood for some silly pulp action.

well, the name of the big evil genius was "Totenkopf". from the very first appearance of this name, the audiance had to giggle - it was just too bad. whenever Jude Law or Gwyneth Paltrow said "Totenkopf", it became worse - at the half of the movie, people were laughing their asses off, making it difficult to follow the story.

Sky Captain is a humorous movie, but people laughed in a way the makers definetely didn't intend. ("what a silly crap").

so I agree with the OP - Totenkopf is just over the top, lowering the quality reception for German speakers.
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