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Subject: Starting deck ? rss

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Rosen Kazakov
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Hello , i never played LCG before , so i wanted to ask , how much cards should have each player in his starting deck ? You cant play with the whole deck of over 100 card , right ? Or you can ? ( i have the base game only )

Thanks
 
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Ken Dilloo
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Typically, 45 for the runner and 45 or 49 for the corp.

You couldn't play with 100, because of the influence limitation on OOF cards. Otherwise, there is no upper limit, other than to be reasonable.

Edit Holy smokes, no ninja
 
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Andy Mills
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Rulebook, p5 wrote:
The game can be enjoyed straight out of the box by building starter decks to play with.

To make a starter deck, take all the cards of a single
Corporate or Runner faction and shuffle in all of the
neutral cards for the chosen side. Starter decks are
quick to build and are legal for tournament play.


If you're building your own decks, then see page 24 of the rulebook where it talks about deckbuilding extensively.
 
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Jeremy Larner
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Also note that the corporation has a required number of agenda points for a given deck size. At the moment it is impossible to create a corporation deck by using all the cards from a particular faction and all the neutral cards, as there aren't enough agenda points available.

ETA: it appears the crossed out bit above is not true. FFG seem to have managed the card releases such that at the moment all corps have enough agenda to build a deck made out of all their own cards plus neutral ones...
 
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Steven Steck
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To make the starter decks from the Base Set, you take all the faction cards from the faction you wish to play, and add all the neutral cards.

Once you get a few games under your belt you can use the deckbuilding rules to create your own decks.
 
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Guido Gloor
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Jadiel wrote:
Also note that the corporation has a required number of agenda points for a given deck size. At the moment it is impossible to create a corporation deck by using all the cards from a particular faction and all the neutral cards, as there aren't enough agenda points available.

ETA: it appears the crossed out bit above is not true. FFG seem to have managed the card releases such that at the moment all corps have enough agenda to build a deck made out of all their own cards plus neutral ones...


Well, after that was possible with the core set already, it didn't take much more card release management for that. You don't have much choice with the base set alone, but it definitely was / is possible.
 
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Rosen Kazakov
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Thanks for your input. ANother question :

If the runner bypasses one ice , the ice is placed face up for the rest of the game , right ? If you want to remove that ice, you just replace it with another and trash the old one ?

Once an ice is bypassed , on the next runner turns, does he always need to use program to hack pass it again ? If for example he bypassed it once , paying some credits to use a program to do so , on the next turns does he need to pay again ? Since he already moved pass this ice , i think he shouldnt ?




Hosted agenda counter ? Really dont understand this one, some help please , thanks
 
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Jack Keys
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Saifur wrote:
Thanks for your input. ANother question :

If the runner bypasses one ice , the ice is placed face up for the rest of the game , right ? If you want to remove that ice, you just replace it with another and trash the old one ?

Once an ice is bypassed , on the next runner turns, does he always need to use program to hack pass it again ? If for example he bypassed it once , paying some credits to use a program to do so , on the next turns does he need to pay again ? Since he already moved pass this ice , i think he shouldnt ?


When you rez a piece of ICE, it remains there for the rest of the game unless you decide to trash it or the Runner plays a card that allows it to be trashed (e.g. Parasites can destroy ICE).

Each time the Runner encounters a piece of ICE, they must either pay to break the subroutines on the ICE, or suffer the consequences of any subroutines they do not break. Runners must break each piece of ICE every time they run on the server.
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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Saifur wrote:
If the runner bypasses one ice , the ice is placed face up for the rest of the game , right ? If you want to remove that ice, you just replace it with another and trash the old one ?

Once an ice is bypassed , on the next runner turns, does he always need to use program to hack pass it again ? If for example he bypassed it once , paying some credits to use a program to do so , on the next turns does he need to pay again ? Since he already moved pass this ice , i think he shouldnt ?


Careful: Bypassed and Broken are two different concepts. Some cards (Inside Job, Femme Fatale) bypass ICE, while others (Icebreakers) allow you to break subroutines. Bypassed ICE do nothing, not even their "when encountered" effects, whereas all other ICE will perform all their unbroken subroutines after you break however many subroutines you break.

Think of ICE as obstacles - walls (barriers), doors (code gates), and guards (sentries). Getting past them once does not get rid of them. If you want to break in again, you have to break in again.
 
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I'd highly suggest reading the rules again and watching the how to play video. The answers to all your questions are there, and pretty much straightforward too.
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Rosen Kazakov
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Hosted agenda counter ? Really dont understand this one, some help please , thanks
 
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Guido Gloor
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Saifur wrote:
If the runner bypasses one ice , the ice is placed face up for the rest of the game , right ?

Whether the runner passes the ice or not has nothing to do with whether it's face up. It is turned face up when the corporation "rezes" it by paying its rez cost when the runner approaches the ice.

Once that happens, the ice indeed remains face up for the rest of the game.

Saifur wrote:
If you want to remove that ice, you just replace it with another and trash the old one ?

If the corporation wants to trash an ice, it can do that only when installing new ice. When the corporation installs new ice, they can first trash as many ice as they want from the server they install the new ice on. This will not rez the ice, only install it and place it face down.

Saifur wrote:
Once an ice is bypassed , on the next runner turns, does he always need to use program to hack pass it again ? If for example he bypassed it once , paying some credits to use a program to do so , on the next turns does he need to pay again ? Since he already moved pass this ice , i think he shouldnt ?

Once the corporation installed and rezzed the ice, every time the runner wants to get through it, they need to have an adequate icebreaker and pay its costs for breaking subroutines of the ice. It doesn't "remain hacked" or any of that sort.

Keep in mind that many ice make it possible for the runner to run past them and suffer their effects and continue running (towards the next ice and ultimately the server itself). Ice only end the run when an unbroken "end the run" subroutine remains after the runner uses his icebreakers.
 
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Guido Gloor
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Saifur wrote:
Hosted agenda counter ? Really dont understand this one, some help please , thanks

I think it's best if you go into your reading cave, take an hour of your time, and give the rulebook a good proper second or third read. That might answer many of your questions.

A hosted agenda counter is a counter called "agenda counter" by the effect that created it, which lies on the card that hosts it. I guess you're talking about Nikei MkII - when you score that one, you put a counter onto the card that is called "agenda counter" and is henceforth hosted on that agenda. When you use the "hosted agenda counter" effect, that counter is gone again and you get the effect. It's a one-off, but very powerful effect.
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Andy Mills
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haslo wrote:
Saifur wrote:
Hosted agenda counter ? Really dont understand this one, some help please , thanks

I think it's best if you go into your reading cave, take an hour of your time, and give the rulebook a good proper second or third read. That might answer many of your questions.

A hosted agenda counter is a counter called "agenda counter" by the effect that created it, which lies on the card that hosts it. I guess you're talking about Nikei MkII - when you score that one, you put a counter onto the card that is called "agenda counter" and is henceforth hosted on that agenda. When you use the "hosted agenda counter" effect, that counter is gone again and you get the effect. It's a one-off, but very powerful effect.


You may also wish to check out this link

which was generated by using this link.
 
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Warren Denning
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I also think the OP should read the rulebook once or twice as well. A lot of the original questions are answered there very clearly.

I starting to wonder if a lot of folks just watch "How to Play X" videos then jump into it without reading the original material themselves.
 
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James W
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bioball wrote:
I also think the OP should read the rulebook once or twice as well. A lot of the original questions are answered there very clearly.

I starting to wonder if a lot of folks just watch "How to Play X" videos then jump into it without reading the original material themselves.


Another possibility is that they're NOT watching "How to Play X" videos then jump into it without reading the original material themselves. o_O
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Rosen Kazakov
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I already read the rules couple times, there is so much info , examples and graphics that i probably missed some things . It can happen to anyone. No one should feel obliged to asnwer my questions , so I dont see what the problem is guys. Thats why we have those forums here , so folks can ask questions, smart or dumb , doesnt matter, its not ruled anywhere what questions you can ask.


I respectfully thank to all who take their time to asnwer me , i dont see the need of bashing people who ask questions here. Dont like them, or dont want to asnwer , its all good , move on to the next post ?


So , anyways i will ask couple of more questions , which are probably answered in the rulebook and yet i didnt find them or i saw them going through 30 pages of text and just didnt registered them in my mind.


1.When exactly ice program remains revelaed , with its side up ?Once the runner has tried to break it or actually breaks it ? i guess in both cases ?

2.When you successfully score agenda,the advancement counters (tokens) are returned to the bank ?

3.Can you install ice programs if they arent protectiing anything (no remote servers or agenda behind ), and later on place agenda or some other card behind them ?

4.Cards are discarded if you are above your hand limit. If you are below that limit , can you still discard a card that you dont need/like ?

Thank yo.
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Simon Gunkel
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Saifur wrote:
1.When exactly ice program remains revelaed , with its side up ?Once the runner has tried to break it or actually breaks it ? i guess in both cases ?


When a piece of ICE is rezzed it stays rezzed. When a piece of ICE in merely exposed, it gets unexposed when the exposing effect has been resolved.

Saifur wrote:
2.When you successfully score agenda,the advancement counters (tokens) are returned to the bank ?


Probably. That´s not in the rulebook and so far not in an FAQ, but the developer has spoken that we can assume that this is the case.

Saifur wrote:
3.Can you install ice programs if they arent protectiing anything (no remote servers or agenda behind ), and later on place agenda or some other card behind them ?


You can not install ICE programs without a server. However that server can be empty apart from that piece of ICE. I.e. when you put down a piece of ICE there doesn´t have to be a card installed in the server. But as soon as there is ICE, there is a server.

Saifur wrote:
4.Cards are discarded if you are above your hand limit. If you are below that limit , can you still discard a card that you dont need/like ?


No. Generally you don´t want to either - an additional card is a runners life energy after all and the corp can use them to buffer against agendas being scored from HQ.
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Guido Gloor
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Saifur wrote:
1.When exactly ice program remains revelaed , with its side up ?Once the runner has tried to break it or actually breaks it ? i guess in both cases ?

haslo wrote:
Whether the runner passes the ice or not has nothing to do with whether it's face up. It is turned face up when the corporation "rezes" it by paying its rez cost when the runner approaches the ice.

Once that happens, the ice indeed remains face up for the rest of the game.

Once more, with more words then, since you haven't read my first reply

Ice are never revealed by the runner running into them alone. When the runner is in front of an ice, the company can decide to either rez it or not rez it.

If they don't rez it, the ice stays face down (and stays inactive). The runner can just go past the ice without having to break anything, and he doesn't know what the ice is.
If they rez it, they pay its rez costs and the ice is turned face up (becomes active) and stays face up for the rest of the game.
If the ice was already face up (active), the runner will encounter it and has to break all of its subroutines or suffer the consequences.

The only effect that can turn an ice permanently face up is "rez". If a card or effect tells the corporation to rez an ice, that ice is turned face up, and the runner will have to break its subroutines and suffer consequences if he doesn't. Without a rez, he doesn't have to, and he won't suffer any "when encountered" effects, because he doesn't encounter a face-down ice.

If a card (which can be an ice) is exposed, it's turned face up for both players to see, and then turned face down again. The runner will not have to break any subroutines or suffer "when encountered" effects if the ice was merely exposed beforehand and not rezzed.
 
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Rosen Kazakov
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Ok thank you very much. When runner decides to make a run and break an ice ,sees that he cannot pass it ( dont have the right program or enough strenght ) he always have to suffer the subruoutines effects , correct ?
 
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Guido Gloor
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Saifur wrote:
Ok thank you very much. When runner decides to make a run and break an ice ,sees that he cannot pass it ( dont have the right program or enough strenght ) he always have to suffer the subruoutines effects , correct ?

Yes, he has to suffer the subroutines if he can't break them (a technicality: he doesn't break the ice, but the subroutines).

If none of the subroutines explicitly end the run, he can pass the ice and continue the run after suffering the subroutines' effects. It's sometimes better for the runner to let a subroutine or two resolve instead of breaking them.
 
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Rosen Kazakov
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Um ok , but it doesnt make sense, I dont think the runner can pass the ice if he doesnt have enough strenght in his program to brake it ? My understanding is if he brakes the ice strenght , than he pays the required credits to pass the subroutines if he wants to , than move on to the next ice. Breaking subroutines is optional as long as they dont end his turn
 
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Steven Tu
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Saifur wrote:
Um ok , but it doesnt make sense, I dont think the runner can pass the ice if he doesnt have enough strenght in his program to brake it ? My understanding is if he brakes the ice strenght , than he pays the required credits to pass the subroutines if he wants to , than move on to the next ice. Breaking subroutines is optional as long as they dont end his turn


You said it yourself:

"Breaking subroutines is optional as long as they don't end his [run]".

So there is no need to break ICE subroutines to pass a piece of ICE. And if you don't need to break ICE subroutines to pass it, then you don't need an Icebreaker, since no subroutines needed to be broken.

You don't "break" an ICE's strength, you have to MATCH the strength to USE the Icebreaker. If you don't need to use an Icebreaker (no ETR), then you don't need to match anything.

E.g.

Runner runs into a Neural Katana, which is a strength 3 sentry with only one subroutine: Deal 3 Net Damage.

The runner, if he has an Icebreaker, can break it and not receive 3 Net Damage. If he doesn't have an Icebreaker, he will take 3 damage, and if he had 3 or more cards in his hand, he survives, and carries on, either to the next ICE, or to the destination server. The run does not end because thee's no End The Run subroutine on Neural Katana.

The runner may jack out after that point, but that's the Runner's choice available to him AFTER he passes every ICE during a run, before he chooses to encounter the next piece of ICE or access cards, and not forced on him/her.
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Guido Gloor
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Saifur wrote:
Um ok , but it doesnt make sense, I dont think the runner can pass the ice if he doesnt have enough strenght in his program to brake it ? My understanding is if he brakes the ice strenght , than he pays the required credits to pass the subroutines if he wants to , than move on to the next ice. Breaking subroutines is optional as long as they dont end his turn

Either you're contradicting yourself, or we agree

Two examples: Let's assume these ice are rezzed and the runner encounters them.



If the runner encounters Wall of Static, he can either break the subroutine on it or not. If he breaks the subroutine, he can continue the run. If he doesn't, he can't - ending the run is the bad thing the ice does to the runner.



If the runner encounters Neural Katana, he can either break the subroutine or not. If he breaks the subroutine, he can continue the run. If he doesn't break the subroutine, he will suffer three net damage and can continue the run because nothing ended it.
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Trevor Schadt
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Saifur wrote:
Um ok , but it doesnt make sense, I dont think the runner can pass the ice if he doesnt have enough strenght in his program to brake it ?
Not necessarily correct. If a Runner encounters a piece of ICE, and none of the subroutines on that piece of ICE end the run, the Runner will not stop (unless he decides to jack out after encountering the ICE).

Here are the list of times when a run will end:
1) An "end the run" subroutine is not broken by the Runner.
2) The Runner has passed the last piece of ICE protecting a server, and has accessed whatever card(s) he is allowed to access (or used a card ability that says "instead of accessing cards...")
3) The Runner jacks out after encountering a piece of ICE.
4) The Runner is flatlined.
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