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Hornet Leader: Carrier Air Operations» Forums » General

Subject: Is navy way easier than Marines? rss

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Ryan King
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I played a few games with the Marines for Iraq 1991's mission and it seems like the Navy has far more options. Does this make it easier to play as the Navy, or do certain missions favor a certain side? It would make sense that it was Navy-centric, just curious.
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Ryan King
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hmmm, yeah great points about the target situation. I keep forgetting to use my Nap OtE ability

.
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Victor J
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I've found the navy more interesting to use as there are a lot more options available.
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Ryan King
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So I played 5 or 6 short games with the Marines, Iraq 91 (only Harriers allowed) and could only get 9 points, 1 point from outstanding. Switched to Navy last night, quick campaign with 12 points, fairly easily. Having the 88's and Phoenix's really make a difference!

But yeah, I think Marines is a great way to learn the game until you stop making rule mistakes, then you can unleash ALL the options the Navy gives you.
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No No No Sheep
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ryanking wrote:
I played a few games with the Marines for Iraq 1991's mission and it seems like the Navy has far more options. Does this make it easier to play as the Navy, or do certain missions favor a certain side? It would make sense that it was Navy-centric, just curious.


USMC campaign are limited to AV8 Harriers and they cannot carry HARM anti radiation missile that make it annoying given the large amount of radar directed anti aircraft weapon sites.

USMC Large Deck campaign are easier , but the USN have all the choice aircraft and weapons and the easiest

IMHO
 
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Judy Krauss
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I have a question about the USMC Large Deck campaigns. They are still limited to using AV8 Harriers (and F-35s during certain years), right? Even though they have they larger deck to take off/land from, they can't use all the Navy aircraft, or can they?
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John Brown
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Actually, it's just like the US Navy Campaign in regards to plane selection, so you can select anything but Harriers. But the target selection is just like the Marine campaign (only targets from the first range band until it's secured, etc.). Also, you have to take 1 less Aircraft each mission and you pay 3, 6, or 9 SO points depending on the campaign length.

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Judy Krauss
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Granger44 wrote:
Actually, it's just like the US Navy Campaign in regards to plane selection, so you can select anything but Harriers. But the target selection is just like the Marine campaign (only targets from the first range band until it's secured, etc.). Also, you have to take 1 less Aircraft each mission and you pay 3, 6, or 9 SO points depending on the campaign length.



Thanks. I couldn't find the Marine Large Deck rules to check, but I finally realized that they were in the Optional Rules section.
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michal
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I'm after long campaigns both US Navy and Marines. I can say both are equal playable although Marine campaign would be tougher for new player.

US Navy has lot of aircraft and weapon to choose from, on the other side Marines have poor choice of aircraft and weapons but they have lots of Special Option Points that player can manipulate an outcome. With AV-8B in long campaign it is 144! SO and with start campaign SO it can be over 200 SO for start.

Now big question: what for I would need so many SO if I can't pick best weapons?
Answer would be: on everything else.
When I was playing Marine campaign first things I payed were: +1/-1 Aircraft, High Stress Attacks, Damage Targets, Promotion. Second were Cruise Missile Strikes on Infra for first 3 days. During first days I used also Recon Priority so I could pick easier targets.
Also with so many SO I gave them lots of R&R and if they can be easily unstressed why not to choose secondary mission every day?

If it come for weapon load-out I've spend it mostly on AIM-120, I've tried GBU but they don't work good with Marine "nap of the earth" flying style. And most important SO use for weapons: Tanker Priority.

As for "nap of the earth" it can save the day, otherwise many of squad instead of get stress would be damaged.

And outcome of both US Navy and Marine campaigns I've played were similar. The only disadvantage in Marines is that every day and every campaign would be almost the same (not many pilots to choose from, and same weapons loaded on planes).
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Joe Markowski
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c08mk wrote:
I'm after long campaigns both US Navy and Marines. I can say both are equal playable although Marine campaign would be tougher for new player.

I found this out the hard way. I'm running my first campaign, long Iraq 1991 as Marines. It's great I had over 200 SO points to start with, but I feel like the limited armament is killing me. I'm 5 days in and I've already lost 3 planes and couldn't recover 1 pilot, so half of my earned VP are already lost.
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Joe Markowski
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Yeah, that was definitely not fun. I just finished Day 9 of my long Iraq 1991 campaign. 16 VP -5 for destroyed planes -3 for a MIA pilot for a Dismal total of 8. 8 VP after 10 missions. I couldn't do any of the tougher stuff because it was so heavily defended, and all I had for AtG armament were Mk 20/82/83s, Rockets, AGM-65s, and GBU 12/16s; I had to be on top of everything to hit it. Exactly how am I supposed to attack that Government Building with 2 Approach Sites, 4 Center sites, 1 Approach Bandit, and 3 Center Bandits without getting shot to hell on the way in? I put an ECM jammer on every plane for every mission.

Also, the dice that come with every DVG game are cursed. I had a target with 1 Approach Site, 2 Center Sites, and 1 Bandit (I think it was POL Storage). I was pretty high on the recon meter, so I removed one of the center sites. I drew Sierra Hotel either Target Bound or Over Target, I forget which, but it allowed me to remove 1 random site from each approach area. Seeing as how there was only 1 site in each area, I removed them all, leaving me with a single site in the center that could only attack Low targets, while I was loaded with GBUs. I happily dropped over 10 WPs worth of GBUs onto the POL storage, completely unmolested and feeling pretty pleased with myself, and then got 7 hits out of the 8 I needed to destroy it. Made one final pass with guns, no hits. FML.

I'm going to give it a break for a few days and come back and play a Navy campaign, hopefully I won't bumblef*ck my way in and out of Iraq this time. Sorry for venting.
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michal
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It is true what you say. The trick for Marine Campaign is manipulate outcome not with ordnance but with Special Options.

Pre-trick (optional) choose your squad randomly. There are not much AV-8Bs anyway and you will get some extra SO for Promotions.
First Trick is Promotion Priority so your Pilots will have good AtA/AtG bonus, Cool, SA, Speed (AV-8Bs are equipped with Cannon so good AtA/AtG will make better chance to score a Hit if you attack, especially with High Stress bonus).
Second trick is Cruise missile strikes (if possible for all tracks) until Marines get good bonus (or neutralize threat).

The first mistake is to take big targets. They are always well defended and AV-8Bs can't remove sites in first turn.
Always pick small Primary Target and if you have pilots Secondary Target. Marines can afford Recon Priority and R&R many times. So don't worry too much about stress but ECM is not an option. Every plane need to carry it. You will make a lot of evasive rolls.
Marines are flying with Range Bands which they need to secure so you should have quite good idea what targets may appear.

Always use Tanker.
Use AIM-120! Marines can afford them as much as they need (I usually take 2-3 other AIMs to neutralize Event or to shoot bandits with rage attack 1.
Fly Low and always carry at least few Rockets for suppression in your squad. If it will be safer, "jump" high over some areas.

If there is some nasty Improvement Target that is bigger, take one more plane (Special Option) you will loose 1VP but with so many Secondary targets it is not much loss especially that for some targets you can take one less and gain 1VP more (Carrier Defense, Fighter Sweep, etc...)
Use High Stress Attacks when drop bombs on target (and when you feel it would give you advantage).

Second mistake are Night Missions. They can be deadly if enemy has initiative so I usually don't fly them with Marines (they have lot of SO, why would I need this few more from Night Mission?)

As I played the same long Campaign with Navy and Marines (I don't remember which one was it but it was one of the "Standard" Campaigns) an outcome was different by 1VP for Navy and both was above Great (even with one Marine MiA).

This looks slightly different when playing Campaigns with Stealth planes but for Campaigns with AV-8Bs only this works (for me) quite well.
The use of Special Options is the key for Marine Campaign.

One more thing I forgot. Target Damage option should also be selected. If you unlucky you always leave target Damaged (example: 8 Hits for 10 needed to be Destroyed). If it is Improvement you can fly it next day. If it was normal Target, Marine range band style missions makes it possible to draw this Target again quite fast (and yes you can take one less aircraft to gain 1VP more).
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