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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Secret Rooms seem impractical rss

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Christopher Alexander
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Our Overlord has started putting Secret Room cards in the Search deck, and so far I’m baffled as to what they are for. They just seem so bad. It appears that you end up fighting about 2 monsters, make a couple attributes tests, and probably end up with one treasure (replacing the treasure you lost by drawing the secret room in the first place), and the bonus for completing the room. While the bonus seemed nifty (cancelling an Overlord card), by no means did it seem worth the staggering cost in actions required to completely search the Secret Room. Descent quests have generally been desperate struggles against time where every action counts. I’m very hesitant to spend 3 actions (with movement) examining a search token; it just seems hard to fathom spending 10 actions exploring a secret room unless we are pretty cocky about having the encounter totally sewn up, in which case, who needs to ability to negate an overlord card?
 
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Crazy J
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Well considering that secret rooms replace the "no treasure" card in the deck, a poor chance of a return is still better than never getting anything from the card that would have happened otherwise.

Mostly it seems like treasure rooms are a chance for a couple of thief heroes to shine, most notably Lindel, Arvel WorldWalker and especially Silhouette. Otherwise they can be ignored when time is critical and you will be no worse off than if you got the nothing you would have got anyway.
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Rafal Areinu
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Well, if you are sure you'll lose the encounter you might search hidden room as well - getting some nifty.

If your Overlord replaced Treasure Chest card with "Secret Passage" then he is cheating, but probably he did it right and replaced "Nothing".
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seb seb2
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i think the rewards are very powerfull for the heroes.Too much maybe.
There's no danger in the room,for a great reward.
That's my problem with the Secret Rooms.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Belsamoreth wrote:
i think the rewards are very powerfull for the heroes.Too much maybe.
There's no danger in the room,for a great reward.
That's my problem with the Secret Rooms.


The danger of the room is that you're wasting actions that could be used toward the current quest.

I only have seen heroes even try to go into the secret room when they were sure to win or sure to lose.
 
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Christopher Alexander
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Thanks. Since I don't own the game, I didn't realize that Secret Chamber cards replaced No Treasure cards. The Secret Chambers are so fancy and complicated, my intuition was that we were supposed to go in, and I didn't understand why it seemed so impractical to do so. It makes more sense now that they aren't supposed to be good, they are just a more interesting alternative to "No Treasure" for cases when you have no better use for your actions.
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Robin Reeve
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Note that only one Secret Passage card may be mixed into the search deck (in replacement of the "nothing" one).
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Darren Nakamura
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Robin wrote:
Note that only one Secret Passage card may be mixed into the search deck (in replacement of the "nothing" one).


That's not really necessary to point out. Only one expansion with Secret Rooms has been released, and no other expansions with Secret Rooms have even been announced...
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David L.
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Ystradmynach wrote:
Mostly it seems like treasure rooms are a chance for a couple of thief heroes to shine, most notably Lindel, Arvel WorldWalker and especially Silhouette. Otherwise they can be ignored when time is critical and you will be no worse off than if you got the nothing you would have got anyway.


What specifically is good about Silhouette in conjunction with secret rooms? Her feat only lets her search search tokens not challenge tokens which are deployed in the secret room.
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Christopher Day
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Is the X search card supposed to be removed if the secret passage card is in the deck?

Note: I am asking for an answer as it concerns The Lair of the Wyrm expansion.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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EfreetInABottle wrote:
Ystradmynach wrote:
Mostly it seems like treasure rooms are a chance for a couple of thief heroes to shine, most notably Lindel, Arvel WorldWalker and especially Silhouette. Otherwise they can be ignored when time is critical and you will be no worse off than if you got the nothing you would have got anyway.


What specifically is good about Silhouette in conjunction with secret rooms? Her feat only lets her search search tokens not challenge tokens which are deployed in the secret room.


Rules as written, I agree with you. However, this may be one worth sending into FFG, because Silhouette's Heroic Feat was written before Challenge Tokens exist, so I'd expect that she should be able to search Challenge Tokens as well.

Fustian wrote:
Is the X search card supposed to be removed if the secret passage card is in the deck?

Note: I am asking for an answer as it concerns The Lair of the Wyrm expansion.


If you are playing with Lair of the Wyrm, you replace the Nothing Search Card with the Secret Passage Search Card.
 
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Chris J Davis
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Dexter345 wrote:
EfreetInABottle wrote:
Ystradmynach wrote:
Mostly it seems like treasure rooms are a chance for a couple of thief heroes to shine, most notably Lindel, Arvel WorldWalker and especially Silhouette. Otherwise they can be ignored when time is critical and you will be no worse off than if you got the nothing you would have got anyway.


What specifically is good about Silhouette in conjunction with secret rooms? Her feat only lets her search search tokens not challenge tokens which are deployed in the secret room.


Rules as written, I agree with you. However, this may be one worth sending into FFG, because Silhouette's Heroic Feat was written before Challenge Tokens exist, so I'd expect that she should be able to search Challenge Tokens as well.


No. There is a clear distinction between Search tokens and Challenge tokens. You cannot interchange them.
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Rafal Areinu
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Dexter345 wrote:
EfreetInABottle wrote:
Ystradmynach wrote:
Mostly it seems like treasure rooms are a chance for a couple of thief heroes to shine, most notably Lindel, Arvel WorldWalker and especially Silhouette. Otherwise they can be ignored when time is critical and you will be no worse off than if you got the nothing you would have got anyway.


What specifically is good about Silhouette in conjunction with secret rooms? Her feat only lets her search search tokens not challenge tokens which are deployed in the secret room.


Rules as written, I agree with you. However, this may be one worth sending into FFG, because Silhouette's Heroic Feat was written before Challenge Tokens exist, so I'd expect that she should be able to search Challenge Tokens as well.


No. There is a clear distinction between Search tokens and Challenge tokens. You cannot interchange them.


I think so too. The challenge tokens were created AFTER all search token related abilities, so if they wanted them to be treated as search tokens they would put it in rule for Lair of the Wyrm.
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Darren Nakamura
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Dexter345 wrote:
EfreetInABottle wrote:
Ystradmynach wrote:
Mostly it seems like treasure rooms are a chance for a couple of thief heroes to shine, most notably Lindel, Arvel WorldWalker and especially Silhouette. Otherwise they can be ignored when time is critical and you will be no worse off than if you got the nothing you would have got anyway.


What specifically is good about Silhouette in conjunction with secret rooms? Her feat only lets her search search tokens not challenge tokens which are deployed in the secret room.


Rules as written, I agree with you. However, this may be one worth sending into FFG, because Silhouette's Heroic Feat was written before Challenge Tokens exist, so I'd expect that she should be able to search Challenge Tokens as well.


No. There is a clear distinction between Search tokens and Challenge tokens. You cannot interchange them.


The reason for the questioning of it is you still search Challenge Tokens by performing a Search Action. If Silhouette's Heroic Feat had read "perform any number of search actions without performing an action" rather than "you may search any number of search tokens... without performing an action," then Challenge Tokens would be fair game.

My question came because of the possibility that it was overlooked, as Silhouette's Heroic Feat was written before Lair of the Wyrm, and before Challenge Tokens were a thing that existed, so I wasn't sure if her Heroic Feat should have been able to extend to those, since they weren't considered when she was written.

At any rate, I did get word from Justin confirming the text as written. Silhouette cannot search Challenge Tokens with her Heroic Feat.
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Andoni Alvarellos
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Wow, this quite a surprise for me. For our group, secret rooms are awesome. Heroes usually get 2 search cards (at least one) and a good reward. And it usually works as a sanctuary for when they are getting beaten too badly. They never failed a quest because of it. In fact, the only reason why we sometimes are not very happy about it is because it extends the duration of the encounter quite a bit (our sessions tend to be very lengthy, with quests taking 3-7 hours to complete).

It's so much so, that we house-ruled that the "Nothing" search card would stay on the deck.
 
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Sebastian H.
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Dexter345 wrote:
That's not really necessary to point out. Only one expansion with Secret Rooms has been released, and no other expansions with Secret Rooms have even been announced...


Sorry to say this, but this is incorrect. Secret rooms are in both, the "Lair of the Wyrm" as well as "The Trollfens" expansions.

So it is in fact correct to point this out.
 
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Chris Lawson
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DelphiDie wrote:
Dexter345 wrote:
That's not really necessary to point out. Only one expansion with Secret Rooms has been released, and no other expansions with Secret Rooms have even been announced...


Sorry to say this, but this is incorrect. Secret rooms are in both, the "Lair of the Wyrm" as well as "The Trollfens" expansions.

So it is in fact correct to point this out.

Actually, he was correct in what he said since he said it on April 24, 2013.

Trollfens wasn't announced until June 7th 2013. From the FFG site, news announcement: The Trollfens.
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Sebastian H.
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Oh, this foul thread necromancy... I didn´t notice the date to be honest
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