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Subject: Soliciting opinions. Wrongful death case dismissed - video proves cop not guilty. rss

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Disclaimer -

The attorney involved in this case is a long time friend of mine. I've known him since he got his degree. He is an experienced criminal defense lawyer and was counsel for the Boise PD for a number of years after serving as a DA. That said...

This cop was pilloried in the local media. Until I saw this video all I had to go on was the assertion that he was recklessly driving at well over 100 mph when he hit and killed someone. For the most part none of the reporting was favorable but none outright mean. It was just assumed that he was out of control and so he lost his job and was indicted. What amazes me is that it's been almost 2 years. The prosecutors have had the dash cam footage the entire time. The defense attorney surely had it under discovery, but it's unlikely he had it before indictment.

There is no way this cop was travelling at 115 mph. There's 3 minutes of footage and except for the straighter stretches of road (where he also would assume that lights and siren alert cars) he seemed cautious. Am I crazy, or does it seem like the prosecutor would have seen this video and chose to not prosecute? The man who was killed was also intoxicated at the time and that is a huge factor.

We just saw, last week, how videos and street cams can help solve crimes and they can be a preventative. But it seems to me that the human factor trumps clear evidence, this is not the county I live in but I've followed the story because of the drama. Not only to the officer, but to the dead man's family who are understandably upset.

Do you see excessive speed or recklessness? Both the victim's family and my friend have agreed to release this footage so the public knows. No doubt everyone is gearing up for a civil case now. I feel bad for the cop, he was responding to a home invasion - which is a serious incident - and even now, with no case against him, he'll be sued and nobody will win.

I say 80mph, maybe 90, tops. And then only one or two spots.

raw dash cam footage
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DWTripp wrote:
Disclaimer -

The attorney involved in this case is a long time friend of mine. I've known him since he got his degree. He is an experienced criminal defense lawyer and was counsel for the Boise PD for a number of years after serving as a DA. That said...

This cop was pilloried in the local media. Until I saw this video all I had to go on was the assertion that he was recklessly driving at well over 100 mph when he hit and killed someone. For the most part none of the reporting was favorable but none outright mean. It was just assumed that he was out of control and so he lost his job and was indicted. What amazes me is that it's been almost 2 years. The prosecutors have had the dash cam footage the entire time. The defense attorney surely had it under discovery, but it's unlikely he had it before indictment.

There is no way this cop was travelling at 115 mph. There's 3 minutes of footage and except for the straighter stretches of road (where he also would assume that lights and siren alert cars) he seemed cautious. Am I crazy, or does it seem like the prosecutor would have seen this video and chose to not prosecute? The man who was killed was also intoxicated at the time and that is a huge factor.

We just saw, last week, how videos and street cams can help solve crimes and they can be a preventative. But it seems to me that the human factor trumps clear evidence, this is not the county I live in but I've followed the story because of the drama. Not only to the officer, but to the dead man's family who are understandably upset.

Do you see excessive speed or recklessness? Both the victim's family and my friend have agreed to release this footage so the public knows. No doubt everyone is gearing up for a civil case now. I feel bad for the cop, he was responding to a home invasion - which is a serious incident - and even now, with no case against him, he'll be sued and nobody will win.

I say 80mph, maybe 90, tops. And then only one or two spots.

raw dash cam footage


I think everything the police do while they are duty should be recorded and kept for several years if not forever. It protects them as much as it protects citizens.
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It's unfortunate that with all the awful crap cops pull it's stuff like this that makes one lose his badge. I don't see anything there that shows he was being negligent.
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tscook wrote:
The only thing the cop did wrong as far as I know was decide to be a pig working for the $tate~


Okay. You finally made me laugh. Of course he wasn't working for the state, just a county sheriff. Still funny though.
 
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What amazes me is how many people are oblivious when driving. That last guy, however... didn't have a lot of time to respond, nor did the cop. That said... why can't there be no fault accidents anymore? This country is pretty depressing sometimes.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot he was drunk. What the hell, people?
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With minor local variations, the highway codes that we are all used to in North America are extremely well crafted. If everyone would follow all the rules all the time, there would be almost no traffic collisions except for the truly unavoidably bizarre circumsatnces.

I believe it used to be about 50,000 Americans that died yearly in collisions and now it's about 35,000, mostly avoidable, if you ask me. That's half to a whole Vietnam war yearly. In this case, as usual, Canada'a statistics follow the population at being one tenth.


Any one of those drivers that the police office passed could have done any number of stupid things that drivers do all the time. If the goal is to ensure that no such collision ever happens, then all first response vehicles must immediately be limited to following the highway code. Heart Attack? Too bad. It's a 30 minute drive to the hospital as the rules of the road allow.


You can literally hear a siren a mile off. When I first start to hear one, I, like most drivers, immediately look in my rearview mirror. I'm already establishing how to get out of the way, looking for a nook to pull over into. As in this highway case with the long straight stretch, one just has to get into the righthand lane. And, there was plenty of time to do so.

Even if the police officer broke a procedural rule about high speed driving, if we held employees personally responsible for every mistake they make, the global economy would come to a crashing halt. I know I've cost my boss' businesses some money over the years.


Only based on the video, justice here, in my opinion, is that the driver's estate ought to be sued for the cost of a police cruiser as well as ticketed for all the driving infractions he committed. That he killed himself by being intoxicated is clearly punishment enough for that crime. The officer's police department ought to be forced to rehire him with backpay, damages and lost seniority, just like they do elsewhere.
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It's crazy how many people don't move over for emergency and police vehicles with the lights and sirens going. I see it all the time. I think cops, when they have the time, should follow ambulances and such and give out citations to those who don't move over in a reasonable amount of time.
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isaacc wrote:


Only based on the video, justice here, in my opinion, is that the driver's estate ought to be sued for the cost of a police cruiser as well as ticketed for all the driving infractions he committed. That he killed himself by being intoxicated is clearly punishment enough for that crime. The officer's police department ought to be forced to rehire him with backpay, damages and lost seniority, just like they do elsewhere.
.


I pretty much agree with your entire post. This last bit is interesting because, as expected, the dead man is viewed as the only real victim. And his family, of course, are viewed with sympathy. But you are absolutely correct Isaac. The cop is a victim as well. He's essentially a victim of a drunk who killed himself and ended the cop's career.

There was more footage on the channel 7 site (it ran on tonight's news) where my buddy (the lawyer) is interviewed and the dead man's daughter is also interviewed. The cop is doing what you suggest... looking into a lawsuit of his own pertaining to how he was treated. Filicetti, his lawyer, indicated he would not return to law enforcement as he was also traumatized.

Overall, this shit happens because we expect our police to respond, and do it fast! Everybody knows that and the dash cam clearly showed, from day one, this guy was doing a reasonable job of hurrying and taking precautions. That's what bugs me, the DA had the video.
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Sorry, the law in almost every place I've ever lived in this country is that you pull over to the right when you see the lights or hear the sirens, or both. The guy who turned left in front of the cruiser had not done so, and it was extremely negligent of the cop, who is supposed to be the expert here, to try and pass without being certain the other driver was aware of his presence. Defensive driving is the ONLY driving any first responder should be using, and if they can't do that, then they can warm a chair behind a desk, or walk a beat. Or be fired.

Meanwhile, if the speed is any sort of an issue, which of course it always is when a policeman collides with anybody during a response and litigation ensues, then forensic analysts can easily discern it by using the dash cam timestamping and the distance between known landmarks on the route. It's easy enough to validate the chronography in the cruiser, or match it.
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MisterCranky wrote:
Sorry, the law in almost every place I've ever lived in this country is that you pull over to the right when you see the lights or hear the sirens, or both. The guy who turned left in front of the cruiser had not done so, and it was extremely negligent of the cop, who is supposed to be the expert here, to try and pass without being certain the other driver was aware of his presence. Defensive driving is the ONLY driving any first responder should be using, and if they can't do that, then they can warm a chair behind a desk, or walk a beat. Or be fired.

Meanwhile, if the speed is any sort of an issue, which of course it always is when a policeman collides with anybody during a response and litigation ensues, then forensic analysts can easily discern it by using the dash cam timestamping and the distance between known landmarks on the route. It's easy enough to validate the chronography in the cruiser, or match it.


Yes, I think you're right. That's why I mentioned a procedural error. What you say is likely what he was initially trained to do. Of course, being forewarned, I saw the collision coming and I was unsurprised that it was a left hand turn type. I believe the officer made a mistake there.

Having said that, was the officer reckless. Not in my opinion. In any typical union setting, the company would be to blame for not providing adequate refresher training. The employee would be held unaccountable and indeed would not be blamed. He would be sent for a refresher course on procedures. It would definitely not be a career-ending event.

People screw the pooch when they're being lazy and negligent. You can plainly see that the officer was continually slowing down and being cautious in his driving, except of course at that last point.


It's two sides of the same coin isn't it. The core of the highway code is low speed which gives you time to react and effect changes. Driving slowly is precisely what first responders are trying not to do.
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I am not casting any aspersions on the majority of his driving during that tape--it seemed pretty cautious to me--but the important part, which resulted in death, doesn't pass the defensive driving standards to which I hold pretty much everybody but myself. I feel sorry for the cop, though it pains me to say it--flawless performances at anything are not easy to come by, and his driving was no exception.

Also, with respect to your final comment, you are right: First responders are not trying to drive slowly, they are trying to drive fast--while exercising extraordinary vigilance. The officer here lapsed at a fatal juncture. It's terrible for all involved.
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I'll add that current technology could easily allow in-car devices that would signal an approaching emergency vehicle in ways that any, even subnormally aware, driver would find compelling.

You cpuld look on the death, the loss of job and all similar case, as being down to no-one having the responsibility and authority to stop such crashes.

You really give a shit?
Phone a local emergency service and ask them "Whose arse to smoke?".
 
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isaacc wrote:
Yes, I think you're right. That's why I mentioned a procedural error. What you say is likely what he was initially trained to do. Of course, being forewarned, I saw the collision coming and I was unsurprised that it was a left hand turn type. I believe the officer made a mistake there.


I've watched a couple times and am not sure what the mistake was. It is hard to predict someone taking a left turn to nowhere.
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rshipley wrote:


I've watched a couple times and am not sure what the mistake was. It is hard to predict someone taking a left turn to nowhere.


You haven't watched it closely enough. He was turning into his driveway. You can barely make it out in the video, and that's how it was reported in 2011 when it happened.
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He definitely was driving great until this one. Every other car he passed he waited for them to acknowledge through moving over that he was there, but not that last one.
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PomInNZ wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
tscook wrote:
The only thing the cop did wrong as far as I know was decide to be a pig working for the $tate~


Okay. You finally made me laugh. Of course he wasn't working for the state, just a county sheriff. Still funny though.


Well if he's a sheriff he should be on a horse. There's your problem right there.


Here in 'Merica we do things different than in New Zealand. And better, much, much better than this kind of NZ law enforcement -> NZ police patrol.
 
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DWTripp wrote:
I say 80mph, maybe 90, tops. And then only one or two spots.

The dash cam time stamps and google maps shows an average speed of 90 mph from Campbell Tractor to the victims residence. 2.3 miles in 1:32
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jmilum wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
I say 80mph, maybe 90, tops. And then only one or two spots.

The dash cam time stamps and google maps shows an average speed of 90 mph from Campbell Tractor to the victims residence. 2.3 miles in 1:32


So, in essence, I said 90 mph and you also said 90 mph. Only you studied the video, timed it, noted specific landmarks and most likely dedicated 30 minutes or more to the process and concluded exactly what I could easily see by just watching the video?

Gosh. Aren't you glad you went to college?
 
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jarredscott78 wrote:
It's crazy how many people don't move over for emergency and police vehicles with the lights and sirens going. I see it all the time. I think cops, when they have the time, should follow ambulances and such and give out citations to those who don't move over in a reasonable amount of time.



This always aggravates me, too. People act like it's a big fucking inconvenience to move to the side for the emergency vehicles. When I'm king of the world cops will give tickets for this, and they'll also stand on the corner and give tickets to every asshole who turns left on the yellow light and holds up the left turn signal going the other direction.
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DWTripp wrote:
jmilum wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
I say 80mph, maybe 90, tops. And then only one or two spots.

The dash cam time stamps and google maps shows an average speed of 90 mph from Campbell Tractor to the victims residence. 2.3 miles in 1:32


So, in essence, I said 90 mph and you also said 90 mph. Only you studied the video, timed it, noted specific landmarks and most likely dedicated 30 minutes or more to the process and concluded exactly what I could easily see by just watching the video?

Gosh. Aren't you glad you went to college?


Average 90 vs. one or two spots. That means, when he slowed down, he was going less than 90. When he sped up, in order to get to an average of 90, the driver must have been going above 90.

So, in conclusion, Tripp be Trippin'.
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Jythier wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
jmilum wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
I say 80mph, maybe 90, tops. And then only one or two spots.

The dash cam time stamps and google maps shows an average speed of 90 mph from Campbell Tractor to the victims residence. 2.3 miles in 1:32


So, in essence, I said 90 mph and you also said 90 mph. Only you studied the video, timed it, noted specific landmarks and most likely dedicated 30 minutes or more to the process and concluded exactly what I could easily see by just watching the video?

Gosh. Aren't you glad you went to college?


Average 90 vs. one or two spots. That means, when he slowed down, he was going less than 90. When he sped up, in order to get to an average of 90, the driver must have been going above 90.

So, in conclusion, Tripp be Trippin'.

Yep, I guess when he asked for opinions, he wasn't really being sincere. It was just a chance to act like an asshole if someone decided to respond.
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djgutierrez77 wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
It's crazy how many people don't move over for emergency and police vehicles with the lights and sirens going. I see it all the time. I think cops, when they have the time, should follow ambulances and such and give out citations to those who don't move over in a reasonable amount of time.



This always aggravates me, too. People act like it's a big fucking inconvenience to move to the side for the emergency vehicles. When I'm king of the world cops will give tickets for this, and they'll also stand on the corner and give tickets to every asshole who turns left on the yellow light and holds up the left turn signal going the other direction.


When I'm queen of the world they will sit and give tickets to every asshole that sits and refuses to turn left on a yellow and instead either decides to make a left on the light changing to green in front of ongoing traffic or instead, sits there through a million light changes.
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she2 wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
It's crazy how many people don't move over for emergency and police vehicles with the lights and sirens going. I see it all the time. I think cops, when they have the time, should follow ambulances and such and give out citations to those who don't move over in a reasonable amount of time.



This always aggravates me, too. People act like it's a big fucking inconvenience to move to the side for the emergency vehicles. When I'm king of the world cops will give tickets for this, and they'll also stand on the corner and give tickets to every asshole who turns left on the yellow light and holds up the left turn signal going the other direction.


When I'm queen of the world they will sit and give tickets to every asshole that sits and refuses to turn left on a yellow and instead either decides to make a left on the light changing to green in front of ongoing traffic or instead, sits there through a million light changes.


I'm talking about left turn lanes where there's an arrow. Also, as I discovered when my wife received a ticket after being t-boned turning left by a guy running the yellow going the other way, it's actually illegal to turn left on the yellow. So there's that.
 
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Jythier wrote:


Average 90 vs. one or two spots. That means, when he slowed down, he was going less than 90. When he sped up, in order to get to an average of 90, the driver must have been going above 90.

So, in conclusion, Tripp be Trippin'.


I think some of the responses in this thread clearly show who in RSP are the actual assholes. I'll be as nice as I can to you Jay cause you're sort of new - the very last thing I need from you is some sort of pedantic, 3rd grade, dumb ass lecture on how "average speed" might be determined. Save that shit for your kids and the women in your life.

My purpose in posting this was to see if the RSP crowd saw what I saw - that the officer was not driving wildly and that he was not driving at the claimed 115 mph. So far that's the consensus.

The secondary benefit so far has been the outing of the actual useless and moronic RSP'ers who obsessively respond to anything I post with attacks, subtle put downs or distracting nonsense. And I don't mean Ted, because that's all that Ted posts, he responds to everybody that way.

My bias here is a bias against drunks. The older I get the more I see the horrific toll irresponsible drinking extracts on us. This case, which ended up centering around the claim that the cop was dangerous is a clear example of how we culturally allow booze to ruin families and claim lives with a regularity that The Reaper would be jealous of.

The dead guy was legally drunk. That's why he didn't see the cop. That's why he didn't hear the cop. He was drunk and now he's dead and now his family is angry because they can't accept that booze, not police, killed dad. The cop has killed someone inadvertently. His entire life, that of his family and any future family and children will be affected - adversely - by the drunken driving of the dead man.

That's my point. Take the two major facts of this incident and put them side by side:

* cop driving too fast disproved by video

* deceased legally drunk proved by blood test

The DA decided to get the cop and downplay the deceased's responsibility in his own demise. That's cultural and it's a bias against cops, even by cops, and it shows a willingness to shove one of the real societal ills under the rug.

Did I mention I'm biased heavily against irresponsible drinkers and honestly believe that anyone convicted, even once, of drunk driving should get mandatory jail time followed by a 5 year period where they have to pay to get a breath checker installed on their vehicle. And I'm not a complete teetotaler, just a very light and occasional drinker.
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Cop driving as fast as stated proved by video + mathematics. I won't make a judgement call as to whether that was 'too fast' because the second part is more important.

Deceased drunk driving - I know it's not the law but seriously, shouldn't people who are driving under the influence be held completely responsible for the carnage they cause?
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