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Subject: Looking at this at the last minute ... have concerns -- rss

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George Breden
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Hi all,

I'm checking out this KS and I know it has about one day left, so not a lot of time to decide. I love the minis and a lot of the characters and card effects seem cool ... but ... from the gameplay videos there are two takeaways that bother me. Maybe I am not right in my perspective? The first thing that gives me pause is that it seems that the game is a SLOW slog of combat through lots of monsters all of the same type. Then another slow slog of combat through many monsters of perhaps a different type. Rinse, repeat. The second thing is somewhat strange though ... even though it appears that getting through one pack of monsters on the whole is slow and samey, the actual combat itself seems far too easy to build any real tension? Monsters roll individually to see if they hit, but heroes roll a BUNCH of dice (due to buffs etc.) and if any one of them is high enough (and for base monsters that number is pretty low -- also affected by buffs etc.) then ALL monsters get hit, and usually killed outright. I wouldn't mind the slowness or sameness of combat if it seemed that every card decision meant life or death, and warranted the time and possible discussion given to them. Didn't feel that, though. Granted I haven't watched all of the gameplay videos, only about half of them. But these were the impressions I got so far. Of course not everyone is going to like every game, and maybe this one is just not for me. I just don't get the sense that there's a lot of actual danger in the game ... maybe there is by the end? I just don't think my interest will hold that long in getting through all the mundane stuff first. Still, the game seems terrifically popular, and maybe I'm just not looking at it in the same light that everyone else is ..?
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John Middleton
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I'm afraid every dungeon crawl in history is a slow slog through multiples combats with similar creatures interspersed with a few traps and a puzzle or two.


The co-op combo focused combat is what makes this one different.


But combo combat is what D&D 4e was all about too.....


If you like minis then it's an awesome deal just for that, since you can use them in tons of other games.

The gameplay is up in the air until we get to play though.


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Ondrej Kocnar
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a_flying_possum wrote:
Hi all,

I'm checking out this KS and I know it has about one day left, so not a lot of time to decide. I love the minis and a lot of the characters and card effects seem cool ... but ... from the gameplay videos there are two takeaways that bother me. Maybe I am not right in my perspective? The first thing that gives me pause is that it seems that the game is a SLOW slog of combat through lots of monsters all of the same type. Then another slow slog of combat through many monsters of perhaps a different type. Rinse, repeat. The second thing is somewhat strange though ... even though it appears that getting through one pack of monsters on the whole is slow and samey, the actual combat itself seems far too easy to build any real tension? Monsters roll individually to see if they hit, but heroes roll a BUNCH of dice (due to buffs etc.) and if any one of them is high enough (and for base monsters that number is pretty low -- also affected by buffs etc.) then ALL monsters get hit, and usually killed outright. I wouldn't mind the slowness or sameness of combat if it seemed that every card decision meant life or death, and warranted the time and possible discussion given to them. Didn't feel that, though. Granted I haven't watched all of the gameplay videos, only about half of them. But these were the impressions I got so far. Of course not everyone is going to like every game, and maybe this one is just not for me. I just don't get the sense that there's a lot of actual danger in the game ... maybe there is by the end? I just don't think my interest will hold that long in getting through all the mundane stuff first. Still, the game seems terrifically popular, and maybe I'm just not looking at it in the same light that everyone else is ..?


Well, I have heard that the designers were slaughtered by the game in the gameplay video no. 7. So there probably is some tension.

What feels unique about Myth is how Darkness reacts to your action.
If you go slowly, it is more sleepy, but if you push a lot it becomes much more agressive. But on the other hand agressive darkness drops more treasure so you might well push your luck and go for it.

Also the heroes look like they have interesting and very different abilities. Yes like in 4e, but in 4e without DM and that sounds well for me.
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Ondrej Kocnar
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Also of course components wise this is a huge deal, so I confident
I wont be disapointed no matter the gameplay (which looks solid as I said
before).
 
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Raphael Pigulla
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a_flying_possum wrote:
ALL monsters get hit, and usually killed outright

Imagine if they didn't. Do you really want to keep track of individual hitpoints for 10+ monsters? Sounds like a nightmare to me.
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Jeff Jessee
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The individual minion monsters have 1 hit point each. There are also captains, mini-bosses, and bosses that are harder to kill.

Some tiles have multiple spawn points, so you will could get multiple monster types to fight in those situations.

The story, act, and chapter quests provide additional goals beyond killing monsters. There are also traps and, on some tiles, merchants.
 
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Chad Caughmann
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Another thing to consider is the random nature of the Hero's abilities. This is one of the more exciting features of the game. Hero's have a deck full of abilities, but unlike most other dungeon crawlers, you don't have access to all of those abilities EVERY turn. You may get an extremely odd combination of cards on a given turn, and you have to make the most out of it. And yes, as mentioned, the designers did die in their demo videos...so its not as easy as you may think, based on those videos.
 
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Thrawn 007
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This game definately is a co-op dungeon slogger, so some of your impressions probably are unavoidable. However, I've seen a number of things that make this game stand out to me.

1) Unique Heroes - Each hero has a unique set of mechanics. Archers must manage arrows. Soldiers need to figure out how much rage to use. Brigands are best when chaining shadows and ambushes. Apprentices need to balance out actions against maintained effects. Tricksters must put together recipes. The game really seems like it will be a different experience based on which character you play, and it gives a good set of easier to more difficult character types in the mix. ...and we don't even know how the evolution of these character types will go in the future.

2) Monster Tactics - We only have scratched the surface here, but the monster tactics are part of what intrigue me. Not all monsters just mash in and hit. There is intelligent monsters who are more efficient surrounding characters than unintelligent ones. There are cowardly monsters who target the smallest threats instead of the biggest. There are ranged units that will always try to keep their maximum range. We still know almost nothing about the mini-boss and boss tactics and abilities, and how that will change the game for unique battles. (Double rat lair tiles with a rat boss scare me though...it's a triple lair!) We also don't know how darkness decks will vary. We do know each boss has a unique deck. How will those decks help their particular race?

3) Quests - Quests will change up the tactics of the battle a little bit. We know from the Lucy quest, you had to try to find time to rescue Lucy in between killing arachnids. With the mix of chapter, act, and story quests, you can get many different combinations of objectives and plots that will make multiple fights against the same types of creatures more variable. I'm sure playing through a quest one time with arachnids and another with cyclopses can be a fairly major change, even though you are looking at the same overall story. When you start mixing creature types (2 lairs of different types) you get even more combinations of battles.

 
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John E
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I've had some of the same concerns. In fact, I found it funny that in one of the gameplay videos (I think #4?) where they are moving through a trapped hallway they actually fast-forwarded the video. If you have to fast forward through part of a video that is supposed to help convince me to buy the game then there is something wrong. How much fun could it have been for the players to move through that trapped hallway 2 squares at a time while rolling dice to see if they got crushed with a rock each turn?!

The other big concern for me has been that there is no terrain to speak of. I mean sure there is a picture of a forest or hallway on the tile, but really each one is just a wide open 12x12 'room'. That leads me to think that each room will be pretty much the same - walk in, lair(s) spawn, spend an 45-60 minutes clearing that tile, then move to the next.

I've been following this game for weeks now and despite the mounds of stretch rewards piling up I still haven't been able to pull the trigger. Just not clicking with me I guess - it looks like slogging through multiple combats in 12x12 rooms is 95% of the game.
 
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Donny Behne
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Morph Mode wrote:
I've had some of the same concerns. In fact, I found it funny that in one of the gameplay videos (I think #4?) where they are moving through a trapped hallway they actually fast-forwarded the video. If you have to fast forward through part of a video that is supposed to help convince me to buy the game then there is something wrong. How much fun could it have been for the players to move through that trapped hallway 2 squares at a time while rolling dice to see if they got crushed with a rock each turn?!

The other big concern for me has been that there is no terrain to speak of. I mean sure there is a picture of a forest or hallway on the tile, but really each one is just a wide open 12x12 'room'. That leads me to think that each room will be pretty much the same - walk in, lair(s) spawn, spend an 45-60 minutes clearing that tile, then move to the next.

I've been following this game for weeks now and despite the mounds of stretch rewards piling up I still haven't been able to pull the trigger. Just not clicking with me I guess - it looks like slogging through multiple combats in 12x12 rooms is 95% of the game.


Its also still in development. You cannot expect a finished product for something like this on KS. There is a ton of information provided and the company making the game has a track record of great products (see www.mercsminis.com). If you don't have a little faith then maybe its not the right time for you.
 
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