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Subject: wtf! wmd?! rss

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Italian Seismologist
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/surviving-b...

since when has a small bomb been classed as a weapon of mass destruction? if that is the case then the whole, 'we have to stop saddam because he has WMDs and will use them' is and was complete bullshit as the US (and UK) used their own WMDs day 1.

a WMD does not take out a cafe and a few dozen people.. hell, a WMD doesnt take out a city block (manchester IRA bombing) and a thousand people .. a WMD takes out a small city and kills tens of thousands.. yes saddam had WMDs (at some point/different debate) and used them against people, they killed tens of thousands at a time..

why can this guy not be tried like any other psycho with murder and attempted mass murder and be done with it.. surely that carries much the same punishment without the unnecessary BS?
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col_w
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Here's the FBI definition:

FBI wrote:
What are Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) are defined in US law (18 USC §2332a) as:

(A) any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this title (i.e. explosive device);
(B) any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors;
(C) any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector (as those terms are defined in section 178 of this title)(D) any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life.

WMD is often referred to by the collection of modalities that make up the set of weapons: chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, and explosive (CBRNE). These are weapons that have a relatively large-scale impact on people, property, and/or infrastructure.


"Destructive device" as per 18 USC § 921 is:

18 USC § 921 wrote:
(4) The term “destructive device” means—
(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas—
(i) bomb,
(ii) grenade,
(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,
(iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,
(v) mine, or
(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;
(B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; and
(C) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any destructive device described in subparagraph (A) or (B) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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FBI wrote:
(B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; and

HOLY FUCK, THIS TERRORIST SHOWS YOU HOW TO MAKE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION



It sounds like the FBI's Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate may need a massive funding increase, because their counterproliferation programs are clearly insufficient to meet the growing threat.
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Italian Seismologist
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PomInNZ wrote:
col_w wrote:
Here's the FBI definition:

FBI wrote:
What are Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) are defined in US law (18 USC §2332a) as:

(A) any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this title (i.e. explosive device);
(B) any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors;
(C) any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector (as those terms are defined in section 178 of this title)(D) any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life.

WMD is often referred to by the collection of modalities that make up the set of weapons: chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, and explosive (CBRNE). These are weapons that have a relatively large-scale impact on people, property, and/or infrastructure.


"Destructive device" as per 18 USC § 921 is:

18 USC § 921 wrote:
(4) The term “destructive device” means—
(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas—
(i) bomb,
(ii) grenade,
(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,
(iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,
(v) mine, or
(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;
(B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; and
(C) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any destructive device described in subparagraph (A) or (B) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.


Of course under that definition Saddam had thousands of them


and the americans and british used thousands of them against saddam..

so yeah.. the reason we invaded iraq was because saddam had weapons of mass destruction and the will to use them.. and we invaded whilst using literally thousands of weapons of mass destruction..

nice!
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lotus dweller
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A sign of how hysterically fearful things were in the USA.
Bin Laden had them strung up like puppets.

If his goal was to demonstrate that the USA could be manipulated through ultra-high emotional impact terrorism then he succeeded.

And then The Coalition of the Willing Yes Men enabled their run-away-train ally.
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Drew1365 wrote:
But you guys still hate us!

That's just because of you, Drew.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Drew1365 wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Pinook wrote:
A sign of how hysterically fearful things were in the USA.
Bin Laden had them strung up like puppets.

If his goal was to demonstrate that the USA could be manipulated through ultra-high emotional impact terrorism then he succeeded.

And then The Coalition of the Willing Yes Men enabled their run-away-train ally.


I'd thumb it if I thought it was well thought out and not a knee jerk reaction to everything American.


I don't get it. Obama was supposed to make the world love us again, unlike that cowboy Bush! But you guys still hate us! You're disobeying Obama! You know what that gets you, don't you?

 
Then I won't go to America to be arrested.
 
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Ooh yeah, baby, I've got a WMD right here in my pants, if you know what I m***CARRIER LOST***
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Daniel Eig
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Oh no, the penal code definition of WMDs and the common/military definition are different!

The horror!
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slatersteven wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Pinook wrote:
A sign of how hysterically fearful things were in the USA.
Bin Laden had them strung up like puppets.

If his goal was to demonstrate that the USA could be manipulated through ultra-high emotional impact terrorism then he succeeded.

And then The Coalition of the Willing Yes Men enabled their run-away-train ally.


I'd thumb it if I thought it was well thought out and not a knee jerk reaction to everything American.


I don't get it. Obama was supposed to make the world love us again, unlike that cowboy Bush! But you guys still hate us! You're disobeying Obama! You know what that gets you, don't you?

 
Then I won't go to America to be arrested.


you really think being in another country will stop the united states from executing you if they want to?
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Boaty McBoatface
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femgoth wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Pinook wrote:
A sign of how hysterically fearful things were in the USA.
Bin Laden had them strung up like puppets.

If his goal was to demonstrate that the USA could be manipulated through ultra-high emotional impact terrorism then he succeeded.

And then The Coalition of the Willing Yes Men enabled their run-away-train ally.


I'd thumb it if I thought it was well thought out and not a knee jerk reaction to everything American.


I don't get it. Obama was supposed to make the world love us again, unlike that cowboy Bush! But you guys still hate us! You're disobeying Obama! You know what that gets you, don't you?

 
Then I won't go to America to be arrested.


you really think being in another country will stop the united states from executing you if they want to?
Are they going to execute this person (and for what crime?).
 
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Italian Seismologist
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slatersteven wrote:
Are they going to execute this person (and for what crime?).


they just need to decide they dont like you.. you obviously can have any rights removed without being found guilty, and they are known to threaten to execute you if you dont bow down to them..
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Boaty McBoatface
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femgoth wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Are they going to execute this person (and for what crime?).


they just need to decide they dont like you.. you obviously can have any rights removed without being found guilty, and they are known to threaten to execute you if you dont bow down to them..
That did not answer the question (which I take is a no, just hyperbole). As to killing people they do not like (as opposed to those who have made hostile threats) can you give a few examples please?
 
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Drew1365 wrote:


I don't get it. Obama was supposed to make the world love us again, unlike that cowboy Bush! But you guys still hate us! You're disobeying Obama! You know what that gets you, don't you?







this is all obamas fault
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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Well, apparently the US has a lot of invading to do.
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lotus dweller
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Koldfoot wrote:
Pinook wrote:
A sign of how hysterically fearful things were in the USA.
Bin Laden had them strung up like puppets.

If his goal was to demonstrate that the USA could be manipulated through ultra-high emotional impact terrorism then he succeeded.

And then The Coalition of the Willing Yes Men enabled their run-away-train ally.


I'd thumb it if I thought it was well thought out and not a knee jerk ....
I' thumd yours if I thought it wasn' defensive paranoia that was losing me a whole Koldie thumb.

(post mutated by Android)
 
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Seems an odd choice to me. I wonder why?

1. An attempt to legitimise the 2003 Invasion of Iraq. Hmmm possibly but it does contradict a good deal of material released around the time.
2. A term that adds legitimacy and power to any Justice action. Possible, it would certainly fit with the narratives legitimising the use of torture and increase the chances of the death penalty for any who used such a device. I wonder if WMD is codified into law elsewhere and such a term makes it easier to gain legal surveillance/additional powers.
3. A fumble by someone who wrote it up using a term that was well known to many. Probable but oh boy what a blunder, an entire will have okayed this move.

This said I can't see the rest of the world or the UN accepting such a definition so I think it will need to be changed. Likewise if you're in the field and someone says that a terrorist has a WMD we now have no idea if they mean a pressure cooker or a nuclear warhead.
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slatersteven wrote:
femgoth wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Are they going to execute this person (and for what crime?).


they just need to decide they dont like you.. you obviously can have any rights removed without being found guilty, and they are known to threaten to execute you if you dont bow down to them..
That did not answer the question (which I take is a no, just hyperbole). As to killing people they do not like (as opposed to those who have made hostile threats) can you give a few examples please?


McKinnon
 
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Well apparently our federal law was fashioned after some kind of samurai code.

If you kill a man like a samurai(i.e. look him in the eye before you blow his brains out), then it's just a simple murder.

If you kill a man like a ninja(i.e. sneak in a plant an explosive), then it's a federal crime.

We're not fighting terrorism, we just hate ninjas.
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femgoth wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
femgoth wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Are they going to execute this person (and for what crime?).


they just need to decide they dont like you.. you obviously can have any rights removed without being found guilty, and they are known to threaten to execute you if you dont bow down to them..
That did not answer the question (which I take is a no, just hyperbole). As to killing people they do not like (as opposed to those who have made hostile threats) can you give a few examples please?


McKinnon
Is he dead? Have the Americans have used a drone to kill him, well fuck me they covered that one up well.
 
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no not dead (yet), but they did threaten to lock him up or execute him without trial..
 
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MWChapel wrote:
Well apparently our federal law was fashioned after some kind of samurai code.

If you kill a man like a samurai(i.e. look him in the eye before you blow his brains out), then it's just a simple murder.

If you look him in the eye and throw a grenade at him to blow his brains out, it could still be a federal crime.
 
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femgoth wrote:
no not dead (yet), but they did threaten to lock him up or execute him without trial..

which not dead guy are you referring to?
 
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femgoth wrote:
no not dead (yet), but they did threaten to lock him up or execute him without trial..


Can you give us a reference to this and define whom you are referring to with the 'they'.
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femgoth wrote:
no not dead (yet), but they did threaten to lock him up or execute him without trial..
So in fact then no they have not done any of this, so in fact no I have no need to fear a random attack by the US. In fact I have more to fear form a sycophantic and weak wiled UK government that is not willing to turn around to the yanks and tell them to fuck themselves. Also I don't recall anyone saying he should not be tried.
 
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