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Subject: Which Middle Ages rulers are most worthy? rss

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Dirk Knemeyer
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Hi Everyone,

We're planning to strike a series of sets of game coins, covering most major periods of European history, for people to buy as an augment to their games. For those familiar with the Kickstarter bonus coins we struck for our game Road to Enlightenment, the quality will be equal to or greater than those.

I'm quite comfortable with our choices for all of the other periods, but I'm having a hard time with the Middle Ages.

Originally I was going to post and show the people I'm considering, but instead let's tap into all the collective wisdom here and see if you unearth anything we haven't considered.

Which *5* rulers from the middle ages - interpret that historical period in any way you see fit - would most deserve being memorialized on a set of deluxe gaming coins? Here are the constraints:

- At least one from England
- At least one from each France and Germany, or two total so long as one has popularly disputed "affiliation" (e.g. Charlemagne)
- Must have historical coins that images exist of that we can base our reproductions off of
- If there are difficult decisions for the fourth and fifth picks we will lean toward those who have the "prettier" coins aesthetically

Thanks in advance!
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Phil Garland
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England: Alfred the Great or William the Conqueror
France: Louis IX
HRE: Frederick I Barbarossa
Byzantium: Justinian or Alexius Comnenus
Russia: St. Vladimir or Ivan III

Seem to be coins for each of these, though quite primitive
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Alfred Wallace
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England: Henry V
France: Louis IX
Germany: Otto I
There should be a Caliphate coin of some sort
Charlemagne

Obviously, there are many options out there...
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Gordon Watson
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England - Richard I or Henry V (William the Conqueror was French, EDIT: as pointed out below he was 'Norman', but whichever, he wasn't English)

France - Charlemagne

Germany - Frederick Barbarossa

Byzantium - Heraclius (this guy saved Byzantium, and there are some fairly good coins too) Justinian is really late-antiquity rather than Middle Ages

Russia - Ivan III (The Great)

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Cosmic Charlie
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Saladin?
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Blake Neff
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Not sure how broad "Middle Ages" is here. Fall of Rome to Columbus, or more like 1066 to 1453? I'll assume a broad one here.

England: William the Conqueror
France: Louis IX
Germany: Charlemagne

Others: Pope Innocent III and Alexander Nevsky
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Heraclius (575-641) and Charlemagne (742-814) might be too early.

For France I suggest Philip II "Augustus" (1165-1223)

Frederick I "Barbarossa" (1122-1190)
Henry V of England, "Henry of Monmouth" (1386-1422)
Ivan III of Russia, "Ivan the Great" (1440-1505)

How about Eleanor of Aquitaine (1122?-1204)? Queen of France and England, crusader, administrator par excellence.

some left-field alternatives:

Pope Julius II "The Warrior" (Giuliano della Rovere; 1443-1513 - you have to at least consider a Borgia Pope!)
Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar "El Cid" (1043–1099)
Salah Ad-din Yusuf Ibn Ayyub, "Saladin" (1137?-1193)

Is there a list for Western Asia as well?
Kublai Khan (1215-1294) deserves consideration, as does Harun al-Rashid (75?-809)

EDIT: William the Conqueror was French

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Phil Davies
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Ozludo wrote:


EDIT: William the Conqueror was French



I've been reading a bit about the Norman invasion recently and William came from Normandy. Following Viking invasion a couple of generations earlier the Vikings settled and took on the language, but Normandy was seen v much as a seperate nation to France at this time. Indeed the King of France tried attacking William on a couple of occasions. So to say William was French is a bit of a misnomer.

As for British leader how about Cnut? First of the Anglo-danes and went a long way toward unifying the country?
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David Hebart-Coleman
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If you specifically referencing the Renaissance as part of the road to enlightenment, then King Matthias Corvinus of Hungary would fit (admittedly I put forward the same name to a recent bgg contest), but under his rule, Hungary adopted many Renaissence themes from Italy. He was also successful on the battlefield, no mean feat considering the geographical location.
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Robert Stuart
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dknemeyer wrote:

- At least one from England


Robert the Bruce.
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Charlemagne and his chief opponent Widukind. Covers France, Germany, christians and pagans.
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Martí Cabré

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Middle Ages in Europe? Well, who defined what is today Europe?

s VI: Justinian of Byzantium. Kept the Eastern Roman Empire from falling and made reforms that lasted some centuries. Restored some order in the western lands. His rule is what we today know as Eastern Europe.
s IX: Charlemagne of the Franks. Reversed the chaos in Western Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire and formed the borders if northwest and central Europe.
s XII: Saladin of the Ayyubids. Kept the East Mediterranean free of "Frank" hands in a complex time when it could have fallen. After Bizantium fell the borders of southeastern Europe were set until the Colonial era.
s XIII: James of Aragon. The Conqueror King. Swept away the islamic control of the Western Mediterranean. Picked up where Belisarius had failed to set a loose empire that would fix the southern border of Europe and last until the XVIII century.
s XVI: Ivan of Russia. The Terrible. Destroyed the khans of Russia establishing the northeastern borders of Europe. Although Western Europe was then in the Renaissance, Russia was not.

I don't think Britain did anything significant for Europe until Queen Elizabeth stopped the Counterreform, so I would not add English rulers.

Ditto for Germany. The first Germanic action that defined what is Europe was stopping the Turks at the gates of Vienna, so it is out of this scope.

At least you don't ask for Medieval Kings from the USA.
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Alfons X, Alphonse X[1] or Alfonso X (23 November 1221 – 4 April 1284), called the Wise (Spanish: el Sabio), was the King of Castile, León and Galicia from 30 May 1252 until his death. During the Imperial election of 1257, a dissident faction chose him to be King of the Romans (Latin: Rex Romanorum; German: Römisch-deutscher König) on 1 April. He renounced his imperial claim in 1275, and in creating an alliance with England in 1254 his claim on Gascony also. (WIkipedia)
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Wolfram Troeder
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jangonzalo wrote:

Alfons X, Alphonse X[1] or Alfonso X (23 November 1221 – 4 April 1284), called the Wise (Spanish: el Sabio), was the King of Castile, León and Galicia from 30 May 1252 until his death. During the Imperial election of 1257, a dissident faction chose him to be King of the Romans (Latin: Rex Romanorum; German: Römisch-deutscher König) on 1 April. He renounced his imperial claim in 1275, and in creating an alliance with England in 1254 his claim on Gascony also. (WIkipedia)


Strongly support this!!!
El sabio brought us the first book of games.
Wikipedia: Book of Games

Edit: Grammar
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Wolfram Troeder
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England: Henry II
HREGN: Friedrich II
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Wolfram Troeder
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Perhaps not famous rulers but those who have a connection to games.

El Sabio, Alfonso X

IIIR there was ruler playing boardgames throughout a battle?

Some king playing chess? Or cards and going bancrupt over it.

Or a pope banning games.
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bob_santafe wrote:
dknemeyer wrote:

- At least one from England


Robert the Bruce.


And there was me thinking he was Scottish.
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Abd-ar-Rahman III (889-961): United Al-Andalus, made Cordoba the intellectual capital of Western Europe and his caliphate marks the beginning of a golden age for muslim and jewish culture.
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Steve Constantelos
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Frederick II, Stupor Mundi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupor_Mundi

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marticabre wrote:
I don't think Britain did anything significant for Europe until Queen Elizabeth stopped the Counterreform, so I would not add English rulers.

Ditto for Germany. The first Germanic action that defined what is Europe was stopping the Turks at the gates of Vienna, so it is out of this scope.


However they may want to sell to the UK and German markets.

For me Heraclius edges Justinian in the claim for the Byzantian slot, partly due to era and partly due to much of what Justinian achieved in the west (although Belasarius did most of the work) being undone within a generation. By the time Heraclius came to power the enemy were camped on the shores of the Bosphorus yet he went on to all but destroy the Persian empire.

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Niko wrote:
bob_santafe wrote:
dknemeyer wrote:

- At least one from England


Robert the Bruce.


And there was me thinking he was Scottish.

That one's hilarious.
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Andrei Ivanesei
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The title is a bit misleading.

During those times Western Europe was just what we may consider today "3rd world". You can't really find worthy kings there since there was nothing worthy done during this time-frame.

To be on topic, you may consider:
- Heraclius or Justinian from the Byzantine Empire
- Kublai Khan for the Golden Horde
- Harun al-Rashid for the Arab Caliphate.
- Mehmet II for the Ottomans (this may be stretching the timeframe though)
- Charlemagne for Germans/Franks

I know it's not the commercial Lionheart-riding-his-horse-on-the-battlefield view, but its closer to reality.
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I presume it would be hard, even next to impossible, to find coin images with islamic rulers, so these are out of the race.
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The english ruler would be in inch.
The german one in "Finger"
French: ligne
Braccio in Italy


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Robert Stuart
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Niko wrote:
bob_santafe wrote:
dknemeyer wrote:

- At least one from England


Robert the Bruce.


And there was me thinking he was Scottish.


Oh... English! I thought the OP meant British!
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