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Subject: How often do you make it to endgame? rss

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David Hansen
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I've noticed that my games very rarely go much past midgame. Even with prudent play, one of us usually gets demoralized by a little after noon.

Just wondering how often games among seasoned vets reach endgame, and how frequent marginal victories are.
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Evil Bob
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That used to happen in our first few games. Then I stumbled across the rule that only the loser of a battle takes morale loss.

Now most of my games last through to at least mid afternoon.
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Brian Evans
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Yeah, I'd say most of my game go into at least late afternoon.
 
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Nicklas Roman
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Most battles have ended near the end of the day.

Someone gets ever more desperate and chances are taken, mistakes made...
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LautreSault
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My first 3 games were very bloody and ended arround 1 o'clock.

But now they end fairly late. Reading the threats about strategy helped.
(I know that, learning a game by ourselfs is part of the magic of boardgaming. But with NT, and a few others, I feel the opposite).

It´s rare to end with a marginal victory, because the player with the initiative, in the last two rounds (if he doesn´t have anything prepared), normally enters in the spirit of "I may lose but at least I'll die trying".

Very risky/desperate attacks tring to find the aprproach with "bluffing units" (if any), but that, normally dosen´t go well.
 
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The team games I've played have all gone deep, including one that was decided with the final morale point loss on the final turn of the scenario!
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Tobias Fromme
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In my games, that depends heavily on the opponent. With some of my regular gaming partners I never reach the afternoon and with certain others the game nearly inevitably is decided in the last turn. This obviously reflects different "styles" to play the game and once again proves just how brilliant a design it is to allow yourself to express your own style and character, while one or the other sytle is not inherently superior to the other by the game design.
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Justus Pendleton
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In an attempt to directly answer the question: I've played 13 times and never seen a marginal victory.
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DeathMosque wrote:
I've noticed that my games very rarely go much past midgame. Even with prudent play, one of us usually gets demoralized by a little after noon.

Just wondering how often games among seasoned vets reach endgame, and how frequent marginal victories are.


After having played the game a lot, I can say that if both players (or all players in a team game) understand the subtleties of the combat system, this game should come down to the wire quite often.

Early endings in the game arise primarily (in my experience) from an inexperienced attacker betting everything on a couple of attacks without working through the expected combat results, or an inexperienced defender not realizing the danger his corps are in.

The game is really about maneuver and denying your opponent the ability to defend all points at once. Patience pays off in this game, but getting to the point where a player understands that takes quite a few plays. I think I had to play about five times before it started sinking in, and after that, I still needed a similarly experienced opponent to protect his positions well (or set up his attacks well).

This is certainly a game where taking risks is not advised unless absolutely necessary. Otherwise, just continue to maneuver and force your opponent to react. You often are waiting for your opponent to make an error (or he catching you in one) before the game breaks wide open.

With players who really understand the system, I think the game should frequently come down to the last couple of turns.

That being said, all of my games usually end in demoralization - the common thinking being that at some point, you have to "go for it" because the clock is running out.
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Peter Collins
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cmontgo2 wrote:
DeathMosque wrote:
I've noticed that my games very rarely go much past midgame. Even with prudent play, one of us usually gets demoralized by a little after noon.

Just wondering how often games among seasoned vets reach endgame, and how frequent marginal victories are.


After having played the game a lot, I can say that if both players (or all players in a team game) understand the subtleties of the combat system, this game should come down to the wire quite often.

Early endings in the game arise primarily (in my experience) from an inexperienced attacker betting everything on a couple of attacks without working through the expected combat results, or an inexperienced defender not realizing the danger his corps are in.

The game is really about maneuver and denying your opponent the ability to defend all points at once. Patience pays off in this game, but getting to the point where a player understands that takes quite a few plays. I think I had to play about five times before it started sinking in, and after that, I still needed a similarly experienced opponent to protect his positions well (or set up his attacks well).

This is certainly a game where taking risks is not advised unless absolutely necessary. Otherwise, just continue to maneuver and force your opponent to react. You often are waiting for your opponent to make an error (or he catching you in one) before the game breaks wide open.

With players who really understand the system, I think the game should frequently come down to the last couple of turns.

That being said, all of my games usually end in demoralization - the common thinking being that at some point, you have to "go for it" because the clock is running out.


I agree with the homebrewer.

What I like about the game is how the burden of attack shifts when the French commit reinforcements. Suddenly what seemed like an impregnable defense becomes a liability as one tries to shift to the offensive. Or vice versa for the Austrian player.
 
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David Hansen
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It would seem that, though some games go later than others, marginal victories are rare.

As such, is it ever worth playing with a marginal victory in mind?
 
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Alan Richbourg
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Definitely
 
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David Hansen
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I'm having a bit of a hard time wrapping my head around it; if marginal victory is so unlikely, what purpose is served by playing for it?
 
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Alan Richbourg
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All kinds of reasons. Maybe firstly, you threaten a marginal victory in order to put your opponent in a bind that gives you the opportunity to make a decisive victory. And conversely, you play for a marginal victory when it looks like you would lose a decisive decision. Also for replayability, you might choose to play in a different style that is based on maneuver and avoiding battle, in which case you can only win a marginal victory. The game's mechanics all work together, i.e. they influence each other, and they are all important. (Well except maybe cavalry continuation - still haven't seen a huge need for that, personally).
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David "Brother" Eicher
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Oh, I love cavalry continuation! It lets you drive out one unit, for example a cavalry screen, and then carry on a threat to a corps.

It's a way of sweeping a defensive perimeter aside and penetrating the enemy's line.
 
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Alan Richbourg
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Brothereicher wrote:
Oh, I love cavalry continuation! It lets you drive out one unit, for example a cavalry screen, and then carry on a threat to a corps.

It's a way of sweeping a defensive perimeter aside and penetrating the enemy's line.


If you could expand on that, I would really appreciate it. Separate thread might be best.
 
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