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Subject: Looking for a confrontational game for euro gamers rss

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Kris Russell
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Jacksonville
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I'm looking for a game that features conflict between players. I have two groups I play with and on occasion it's just me and my wife. My first group is very much into euro games occasionally we play what would be considered ameritrash. We are slowly introducing our other group to games outside of party games and Monopoly. My wife absolutely adores Agricola and any other worker placement.

What I'd like to find is a game that offers conflict that would appeal to euro gamers.

We have played:

Deadwood - Played once by me and my wife, not bad a little simple and needs more than two
Dominion - Played quite a bit, Very little confrontation but my wife loves the witch and the curse cards
Manhattan Project - Played a few times everyone likes it, I want more than I'm going to bomb your building so you can't use it

Looked at:

Eclipse - Looks okay, Wife watched a review with me and was not too thrilled
Carson City - Looks good seems like it plays similar to Deadwood (Please feel free to tell me otherwise)
Rex: Final Days of an Empire - What I'm looking for in a game. I doubt my wife would really be all that thrilled with it.

So any suggestions that would appeal to my euro gamers that fit what I'm looking for?
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Lawrence Spode
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I was going to say Dune due to the focus on Auctions, Resource Management, and overall awesomeness, but looks like you already scratched off Rex.

Senji, Shogun?
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Martin G
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Tigris & Euphrates wrote the book on confrontational games for euro gamers.
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David Debien
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Round Rock
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Tammany Hall

Evo

Tigris & Euphrates

Reef Encounter

Shogun

All have conflict. Not all qualify as Euro games, but have aspects found in Euros.
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Josh Dudley
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This was a thorough post, by
Samo Oleami
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, to a similar recommendation request about euros with player interaction/conflict. My favorite of the games that I've played on this list is Tammany Hall.

sgosaric wrote:
Several ways to go about it:

the school of loud:

Negotiation games
Intrigue is an euro which is said to be Diplomacy packed in an hour - said to be quite nasty.
Alcatraz: The Scapegoat - is it an euro? I think it qualifies. This is a game that feels like a co-op but it's a negotiation game. Plays best with 4 - you're prisoners trying to run away, but one person will stay behind. Now who will that be is a matter of serious negotiations and dirty schemes.

trading games - negotiation with no hurt:
Bohnanza (light), Chinatown (medium), Genoa (heavy) - they more or less feel like you're screaming at a middle east bazaar. The latter two have anything can be traded approach - they're not to be played with

stock market games - subtle partnerships in user generated economy. Talking is mostly in auctions, but I like them with negotiations as well (some say this is "variant")
Chicago Express - if you own a stock in a company you get to make decisions - like making it more profitable or ruining it on purpose or blocking another company. Depending on your portfolio.
Modern Art - pure auction game, but you will do better when you realise it's about partnerships and stock (stock being cards you get in your hand). A lot of ways of surfing on the groupthink.

The school of silent:

card games and blocking games:
Tigris & Euphrates - I'm calling it a card game, well, it's kinda like card game meets traditional boardgame and theme exists. Pegasus has a nice edition with 2 sided board.
Tichu - traditional cardgame style game based on Chinese climbing games. Played in teams 2 VS 2. If you like cardgames, this is one to get (and it's cheap). And if you want a 2 player game of this type get Haggis
Torres - abstract, brainburning, but I've got a thing for 3D puzzling. This is all about blocking and getting in the best position which is as high as possible. Silent, but a lot of elbowing.
Taj Mahal a card game with kind of auctioning, but it's also about building networks and bluffing. It's a game of chicken.
Carcassonne - you can play this nice or nasty and it's cheap and everyone who hasn't played it to death tends to like, so get it. It's tile laying with some stealing of points if you play it right. If you want to play it nastily there are 2 expansions made exactly for that: Carcassonne: Expansion 4 – The Tower and Carcassonne: Expansion 3 – The Princess & The Dragon

area control - as close as euros get to actually fighting, well sort of.
Small World - free for all fighting with wacky fantasy races - okay in the end it's just putting chips on the board and counting victory points, but it sure looks cute.
El Grande - I don't like it much, but it's a oldie euro with a lot of stuff going on, annoying other people is one of them.
Dominant Species - for me it's El Grande with better theme implementation and smoother gameplay which is also twice as long. If 3 hour games like this seem fun, go for it - I like Chaos in the Old World better.
Tammany Hall is said to be nasty area control game with good theme implementation. On my wishlist.

Is it an euro? - hybrids. For me the best of both worlds - theme and interaction of ameritrash with euro level of simple rules and smooth play.
Chaos in the Old World - looks like ameritrash and well it is, but it's area control and for me the best area control game there is. Asymmetrical powers and 4 players only (or 5 with expansion). The theme is either hit or miss (or well, I don't care what it is as long as there is one).
Cyclades - dudes on a map plus auctions. A game that gets better the more you play it. You must play and bid aggressively - it's all about ganging up on whoever is in front.
Survive: Escape from Atlantis! - ameritrash classic that is simpler and more elegant than most euros. And nasty as hell. Kids can play this and they usually can take it - it's adults that can't. Bash the leader game all the way.
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Dave Gilligan
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I second the recommendation for Tammany Hall.
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Fernando Robert Yu
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Carson City has been getting interesting for me as a euro with conflict. In addition, the huge dice in this game is also strangely appealing, especially when used for gunfight resolution...

You can also look into Alien Frontiers. Why bomb your opponent's facilities when you can steal them instead!
 
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Niels K.
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Carson City and Troyes are both great confrontational Eurogames.
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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I'd suggest Cyclades
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Marc Hawkins
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Babel is a great confrontational choice for two (this is a game where it's often as productive to take down your opponent as it is to build yourself up, if not more).
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EXTRA AVOCADO! Sonderegger
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If it's just you and your wife, Antike Duellum is brilliant. Euro resource gathering, and a diceless combat system makes for a great abstraction of when empires collide.
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Louise McCully
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Here's a couple of very Euro conflict games I like.

Wiraqocha - it's really only a three player game unless you have the expansion (expansion is on my wishlist)

Carolus Magnus - abstract, area control game. Two things I usually don't like but in this it works really well for a Euro gamer like me (only got to play this last week). I can see it being a very good two player game, we played with four.
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Rolling Twenty
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I don't really know the difference between "euro gamers" and American gamers but if you want a devilish game with strategy and conflict, easy to play (and is also available to play free online) I would suggest the classic game of world domination and deception, Diplomacy.

It's like Risk with backstabbing. Basically, before each turn you have a chance to talk to each other player privately. They may ask you to help them with an attack, help stop another player from attacking them or to not help another player, in turn promising to support you.

When you start the game, players are usually open to helping each other but as the game progresses that's when the backstabbing starts. Player A asks you to support his attack. "Sure," you say. All moves are submitted. The round plays out. Player A, who asked you to help attacks player B expecting your support. You don't. Both player A and player B are weakened. Now you make your attack...

 
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Derm .
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Senji is immensely conflict based. If you're not trying to subvert the other players, then you're not playing Senji properly.
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Clinton Coddington
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Sphere wrote:
I'd suggest Cyclades


A +1 to this recommendations. Fantastic game with gorgeous art and components.
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Eric Alexopoulos
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Wallenstein is a wuro (euro wargame) and would definitely appeal to your group.

+1 for Cyclades and Tigris & Euphrates.
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Thomas
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Yedo
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Cyclades
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Alien Frontiers
Survive: Escape from Atlantis!
 
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David B
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-1 for Carson City. The confrontation in that game is not as prevalent as you would want. In fact, the duels generally aren't even worth the risk in the first 3 rounds. If you win a duel, you are giving your opponent an extra worker in the next round. Duels are more prevalent and matter more in the final round. But, what kills the game for me is the book keeping. Constantly adjusting the changing values on the buildings and tallying the income every round is a pain in the neck. The actual part of the game that requires thinking and planning, which is the placement of the workers, becomes a small percentage of the actual playing time because the book keeping hogs a ton of the time. I must say sorry to all the Carson City fans, but this to me is just not fun.
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Eric Brosius
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My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
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Taj Mahal will have you hating each other in no time.
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Brook Gentlestream
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+1 Carson City
+1 Survive: Escape From Atlantis

Survive: Escape From Atlantis needs four players, or two players willing to play two sets of meeples at once.

For strictly two-player play, I also recommend looking at Nature of the Beast: Prairie vs. Polar.
 
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Robert Manore
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Warlord beats Troll, Troll beats Elf, Elf beats Water Sprite, and basically everything else beats Enchanted Bunny.
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+1 Tammany Hall
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Louise McCully
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Rolling20 wrote:
I don't really know the difference between "euro gamers" and American gamers but if you want a devilish game with strategy and conflict, easy to play (and is also available to play free online) I would suggest the classic game of world domination and deception, Diplomacy.



I'm currently reading Eurogames by Stewart Woods (his thesis on the genre) and how he defined the difference between most (of course never all) Euro and Ameritrash games is:

Euro game conflicts you already know what resources you have on hand to attack another player. For example Wiraqocha you roll the dice and then decide how to spend them aka take over or defend territories.

Ameritrash conflict tends to be an announcement of some sort as to where the attack etc will be and the result is often determined by dice or another luck mechanism. So it's more about probabilities of winning based on what things you have on hand to mitigate the luck factor.
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Andrew Lloyd
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GOSU is a gun 2p game that has a fair amount of conflict.

Seasons is fun, nice components and the possibility for nice interaction/screwage.

And of course, one of my all time favorites: Innovation. A ton of conflict and interaction. While it is multiplayer, i think it does best with 2, maybe 3.

Oh, and Glory to Rome and Race for the Galaxy are great multiplayer.
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Costas Taliadoros
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+ 1 for Cyclades and Tigris & Euphrates

Also,

Dominant Species
Vanuatu and
El Grande
 
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nik holliday
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I would recommend Lifeboats; the whole game revolves saving yourself and f***ing everyone else over. I used this as a gateway game with some of my wife`s friends and they loved it.
I don`t know how you`d define Euro though. This follows all the usual qualifiers I believe.
The components are very good: wooden boats and pawns and a nicely designed thick board.
If it`s a pure Euro you`re looking for, I recommend Keyflower. Its a tile-collection/auction/worker placement game. The tiles are fairly limited each turn, so players can ruin each other`s plans by stealing their tiles from under them during the auction phase. There are some very interesting ideas in this one. For example, most of the tiles have a function, such as producing workers or resources. Now, it`s quite possible to use another player`s tile by placing one or more workers on it. The payoff is that the player whose tile you activate gets the worker(s) that you used to activate it.
 
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