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Subject: A Study in Emerald KS live now rss

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Martin Wallace
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Treefrog has just launched 'A Study in Emerald' on Kickstarter.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1799046854/a-study-in-em......

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/967399/a-study-in-emeral...

The game based on the short story by Neil Gaiman, where the world is run by the Old Ones and there is an underground resistance movement opposing them. The game takes this theme and fleshes it out with historical characters.

The core mechanic is deck building, but with the twist that you bid for the cards you want to draft. Secret identities mean you do not know who is up to what. The game is for two to five players and should take around two hours to play.

The campaign will run until 24th May 2013.

Martin
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Riccardo Menozzi
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Link doesn't work cry
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T. Fred
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If you do a search on KS, it shows up at:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1799046854/a-study-in-em...

(Martin dropped the last few letters of the URL in his post).

Its in pounds and doesn't seem to doing payments through Amazon. But I'm in.
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Rick Vinyard
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I saw this and quickly thought:

Arthur Conan Doyle
H.P. Lovecraft
Neil Gaiman
Martin Wallace
Sherlock Holmes
Cthulhu
Professor Moriarty
Zombies


It was impossible to not back it.
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Clinton Coddington
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It's beyond what I have to spend. I'm going to sulk in the corner for awhile now.
cry
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Liam
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rvinyard wrote:

Arthur Conan Doyle
H.P. Lovecraft
Neil Gaiman
Martin Wallace
Sherlock Holmes
Cthulhu
Professor Moriarty
Zombies



Well put.
 
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scott Murray
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KillerTaco wrote:
It's beyond what I have to spend. I'm going to sulk in the corner for awhile now.
cry


My thought exactly. Looks like it's PnP time
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Grrr. My love of Wallace is testing me. I just don't do KS. For so many reasons, but the main one being I don't like pre-ordering(paying) for a game I'll not likely see for another year. I like to buy games when they are ready to ship. I've only ever bought one game on KS, and that was Moongha Invaders: Mad Scientists and Atomic Monsters Attack the Earth!, and I paid in November, and I'll see it next October. Which is fine, as it is a game I've played several times, and I know I that I already love it. But untested games. It kills me, as it looks interesting.
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80$(CDN) for 128 cards and some wooden bits? You can't be serious. I felt like paying 65$ for Endeavor was a lot, but that game had a huge board, five individual player boards, 48 cards, another 48 building tiles, tons of tokens and a bunch of wooden discs. Not to mention it was out of print so I couldn't really shop around.

I was so psyched for this game, I expected to back this on day one, without question. I kept checking multiple times per day to see if the KS was up, and now that it is I must admit I am not sure I will back.

I know if enough people don't back, it won't get made, but this will probably be 40-50$ at online retailers when it is released.
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Liam
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This might be a UK V North American issue price wise. Here I expect to pay £40 for an average board game - £50 doesn't seem unreasonable, particularly when the size of the print run is not known.

Additionally this isn't being printed in East Asia but instead in Germany, with a established publisher in charge of manufacture and distribution and a veteran and excellent designer - all this is why they are able to say convincingly that they're aiming for October as distribution date!

Also by charging everyone a little extra they can offer this:
"Shipping costs are included in the price. There are no additional shipping costs based on address. Wherever you live, that’s where we will send the game." Jeeze if only North American Kickstarters followed suit and this became the norm.

The price will certainly drop when/if it gets published but in the UK I reckon it'll still be £35-40. (as an aside I can't see them waiting till 2015 to print a second edition).

Anywho you've convinced me.
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monkeyhandz wrote:
This might be a UK V North American issue price wise. Here I expect to pay £40 for an average board game - £50 doesn't seem unreasonable, particularly when the size of the print run is not known.

Additionally this isn't being printed in East Asia but instead in Germany, with a established publisher in charge of manufacture and distribution and a veteran designer - all this is why they are able to say convincingly that it's getting shipped to you in October!

Also by charging everyone a little extra they can offer this:
"There are no additional shipping costs based on address. Wherever you live, that’s where we will send the game." Jeeze if only North American Kickstarters followed suit and this became the norm.


The price will certainly drop when/if it gets published but in the UK I reckon it'll still be £35-40.


No offense, but I don't want to help pay for shipping to someone who lives in Australia or Thailand. If the game was 40$ plus 20$ shipping to Canada, that would be OK with me. I am not willing to pay a premium just so people who live on the other side of the world get a great price on their shipping because I essentially subsidized them.
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Liam
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Well that's your choice and it's a legitimate one but I like it when folks get together and help each other out. I'll gladly pay a little extra to make distribution fairer for all. The same amount of money should net you the same reward, IMO.
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Hugh Wyeth
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Erratik wrote:
80$(CDN) for 128 cards and some wooden bits? You can't be serious. I felt like paying 65$ for Endeavor was a lot, but that game had a huge board, five individual player boards, 48 cards, another 48 building tiles, tons of tokens and a bunch of wooden discs. Not to mention it was out of print so I couldn't really shop around.

I was so psyched for this game, I expected to back this on day one, without question. I kept checking multiple times per day to see if the KS was up, and now that it is I must admit I am not sure I will back.

I know if enough people don't back, it won't get made, but this will probably be 40-50$ at online retailers when it is released.


My thoughts exactly. I'll just wait till it retails and see the price. We can get London for £12 in the UK even though the RRP is something like £35...

Nothing against Martin Wallace of course! I'd love to back it but it's too much for me.
 
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Joerg Schaefer
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Erratik wrote:
monkeyhandz wrote:
This might be a UK V North American issue price wise. Here I expect to pay £40 for an average board game - £50 doesn't seem unreasonable, particularly when the size of the print run is not known.

Additionally this isn't being printed in East Asia but instead in Germany, with a established publisher in charge of manufacture and distribution and a veteran designer - all this is why they are able to say convincingly that it's getting shipped to you in October!

Also by charging everyone a little extra they can offer this:
"There are no additional shipping costs based on address. Wherever you live, that’s where we will send the game." Jeeze if only North American Kickstarters followed suit and this became the norm.


The price will certainly drop when/if it gets published but in the UK I reckon it'll still be £35-40.


No offense, but I don't want to help pay for shipping to someone who lives in Australia or Thailand. If the game was 40$ plus 20$ shipping to Canada, that would be OK with me. I am not willing to pay a premium just so people who live on the other side of the world get a great price on their shipping because I essentially subsidized them.


You do realize that in this case the Europeans are subsidizing overseas, i.e. US/Canada shipping?
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MWChapel wrote:
Grrr. My love of Wallace is testing me. I just don't do KS. For so many reasons, but the main one being I don't like pre-ordering(paying) for a game I'll not likely see for another year. I like to buy games when they are ready to ship. I've only ever bought one game on KS, and that was Moongha Invaders: Mad Scientists and Atomic Monsters Attack the Earth!, and I paid in November, and I'll see it next October. Which is fine, as it is a game I've played several times, and I know I that I already love it. But untested games. It kills me, as it looks interesting.


PnP the prototype.
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monkeyhandz wrote:
This might be a UK V North American issue price wise. Here I expect to pay £40 for an average board game - £50 doesn't seem unreasonable, particularly when the size of the print run is not known.



Yes it is. Since I normally buy games from the UK I too am used to 40 pound price tags; however, I still have to pay expensive shipping with that. So 50 pounds is okay.
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JoSch wrote:

You do realize that in this case the Europeans are subsidizing overseas, i.e. US/Canada shipping?


I fail to see how US/Canadian customers are getting any sort of discount on this one. Do you mean to say that you believe if the shipping costs had been added on seperately that US/Canadian backers would have paid more than 80$ for this game? If that's the case then Treefrog really need to rethink how they produce their games, because they are pricing themselves out of many sales.

A game like Among the Stars, published by a smaller company, which has about the same amount of stuff as A Study in Emerald, cost 55$ including shipping on indiegogo. The game was produced in Germany as well, so why the huge cost difference?

Look, Treefrog can charge whatever they want, and I am certain this game will be funded, but sometimes in business you can lower the price on a product, thereby cutting your profit, yet still make more money because you will sell a lot more of them. You are hearing a lot of people complaining about the pricing, both on BGG and on the KS page, so they are clearly losing sales. I shouldn't have to order six copies to get a "discount" price of 58$ CDN, that should be close to the regular price.

Just to be clear, if this was 60$ with shipping, it would still be a bit pricey, but I would have already pledged.
 
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Scot Ryder
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I don't often complain about price but $76 USD for a small card game is fairly out of step with normal prices. He's maximized his profits at the expense of his most ardent fans and in the process has lost out on an unknown number of customers who aren't willing to pull the trigger simply because it's Wallace.
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Francois-Xavier
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I was quite excited about backing this project as I enjoy Martin's games, but I agree with other posters that £50 is just too much for most people, and definitely for me. I'm afraid I'll have to pass.
 
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Bean-Boy wrote:
I don't often complain about price but $76 USD for a small card game is fairly out of step with normal prices. He's maximized his profits at the expense of his most ardent fans and in the process has lost out on an unknown number of customers who aren't willing to pull the trigger simply because it's Wallace.


I can't argue with this, since I have gone on record as saying 100 USD for games like Myth are just too much. At least you get minis with that game.

Still I find the game interesting and want to help back it, not because I'll get the game cheaper but because I want it to be produced. That's the real value of the 50 pounds for me. I want this game made and want to help with the initial costs. Sure I could probably get it for 30 pounds later at IGUK, but not if it isn't fully backed.
 
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Shannon Kane
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I'm not going to thumb my nose at this because of price. Backing to get stretch goals of extras, a game that looks like it will be gorgeous, and shipping from Germany? There aren't many cards but there are other components here. It seems like a fair price to me.
 
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Shankie wrote:
I'm not going to thumb my nose at this because of price. Backing to get stretch goals of extras, a game that looks like it will be gorgeous, and shipping from Germany? There aren't many cards but there are other components here. It seems like a fair price to me.


The other components are standard wooden bits, and they don't cost that much to produce. If you compare this game with others with even more cards/components, it is much more expensive.

If you deem the price to be worth it for you, that is fine, but it is not in line with other games containing similar components, so I don't feel it is "fair" at all.
 
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Erratik wrote:
...
I know if enough people don't back, it won't get made, but this will probably be 40-50$ at online retailers when it is released.


From the Kickstarter page:
This game will initially only be available via Kickstarter or direct from Treefrog Games, it will not be going into general distribution. We may or may not publish a second edition of the game for general distribution, but if we do the earliest you are likely to see it is 2015.
 
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opticode wrote:
Erratik wrote:
...
I know if enough people don't back, it won't get made, but this will probably be 40-50$ at online retailers when it is released.


From the Kickstarter page:
This game will initially only be available via Kickstarter or direct from Treefrog Games, it will not be going into general distribution. We may or may not publish a second edition of the game for general distribution, but if we do the earliest you are likely to see it is 2015.


I hadn't seen that, but I don't really like the message. I never liked established companies using KS as a pre-order machine, but this is like holding gamers hostage in a way. I feel like they put that in there precisely because they realize the game is too expensive and that people would hesitate to pay that much for it. Its almost like they are saying "Hey, you better back this, even if its way overpriced, because we might never print it again."

Thanks for pointing this out to me. I don't like these sorts of sales tactics one bit and I am definitely not getting this now.
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Erratik wrote:
I hadn't seen that, but I don't really like the message. I never liked established companies using KS as a pre-order machine, but this is like holding gamers hostage in a way. I feel like they put that in there precisely because they realize the game is too expensive and that people would hesitate to pay that much for it. Its almost like they are saying "Hey, you better back this, even if its way overpriced, because we might never print it again."

Thanks for pointing this out to me. I don't like these sorts of sales tactics one bit and I am definitely not getting this now.


Eh? If they are able to influence peoples decision by saying the game may not be available later, well, then that kind of means the game is actually priced correctly. If the game does not appear interesting or is overpriced, then such a "threat" would be empty.

I've backed the game, and given the amount of support it has received in this short period of time, it looks like many others consider the price ok too. My concern with Kickstarter games is more with whether or not the final product turns out as expected, so by not backing it you are at least taking the safe path.
 
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