Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
24 Posts

Super Dungeon Explore» Forums » Rules

Subject: Witches potion rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
John Ryer
msg tools
my son pulled a fast on tonight. he used the witches potion on one of his minions. which made a cheesy minion a pretty strong foe. plus every time he hit with his frog, he would get a potion to remove a heart or use it to remove bind or weak on his big boss. is this allowed? the card says wich can turn target Model to a frog which is vague. there is also no skull points on the frog so we dont know how many points it costs to activate. please help.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G G
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If it doesn't have a skull cost, he would have to wait until end of round to activate it, when he activates all remaining models.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Paul
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You can't use the potion on a friendly figure.

Check the rules and addendum card. Offensive potions "...follow the normal rules for special actions and attacks...."

So, you can't use it to attack friendly models.

Just like you can't intentionally attack a skullbat to tears it into a bone pile...

Nice try though
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonah Rees
Wales
Cardiff
South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Also, potions cannot be used by the Consul player. The new rules allow them to use hearts to remove stuff right (although you still have to do damaged as well)!?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe fife
United States
charlton
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Actually, errata 1.2 allows hearts and potions to be used by bosses and mini-bosses to remove status effects from themselves. Also Blood Drinker, as found on Von Drakk, allows the marked Consul model to use a heart in the same manner as a Hero.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonah Rees
Wales
Cardiff
South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Imriel wrote:
Actually, errata 1.2 allows hearts and potions to be used by bosses and mini-bosses to remove status effects from themselves. Also Blood Drinker, as found on Von Drakk, allows the marked Consul model to use a heart in the same manner as a Hero.


Cool, so it's hearts and potions but only to remove status effects and not wounds. Thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve B.
United States
Cherry
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Imriel wrote:
Actually, errata 1.2 allows hearts and potions to be used by bosses and mini-bosses to remove status effects from themselves. Also Blood Drinker, as found on Von Drakk, allows the marked Consul model to use a heart in the same manner as a Hero.


That's actually up for debate. In 1.2 it says in one spot for hearts and potions and in a 2nd spot for just hearts.

I take it as just hearts and assume the potion is just a typo.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonah Rees
Wales
Cardiff
South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
darkmagi wrote:
Imriel wrote:
Actually, errata 1.2 allows hearts and potions to be used by bosses and mini-bosses to remove status effects from themselves. Also Blood Drinker, as found on Von Drakk, allows the marked Consul model to use a heart in the same manner as a Hero.


That's actually up for debate. In 1.2 it says in one spot for hearts and potions and in a 2nd spot for just hearts.

I take it as just hearts and assume the potion is just a typo.


Wait, you mean the rulebook and FAQs aren't completely clear - the shock whistle I use your rulebook to be honest, much better than the actual one that came with the game and trying to use the two errata's. Although yours does also have hearts and potions in!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve B.
United States
Cherry
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jonahmaul wrote:
darkmagi wrote:
Imriel wrote:
Actually, errata 1.2 allows hearts and potions to be used by bosses and mini-bosses to remove status effects from themselves. Also Blood Drinker, as found on Von Drakk, allows the marked Consul model to use a heart in the same manner as a Hero.


That's actually up for debate. In 1.2 it says in one spot for hearts and potions and in a 2nd spot for just hearts.

I take it as just hearts and assume the potion is just a typo.


Wait, you mean the rulebook and FAQs aren't completely clear - the shock whistle I use your rulebook to be honest, much better than the actual one that came with the game and trying to use the two errata's. Although yours does also have hearts and potions in!


Ya, I just copied the errata, didn't change/ommit rules that were still waiting to be clarified.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G G
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jonahmaul wrote:
Wait, you mean the rulebook and FAQs aren't completely clear - the shock whistle


Oh, well, the fix for that is easy enough. Just go to SPM's website and ask the question in the Rules section. They should have a response back later today. ninja
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonah Rees
Wales
Cardiff
South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
That would be the website that regularly doesn't work right!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G G
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What, it's not up as usual? Just email the SPM webmaster! laugh
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe fife
United States
charlton
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
darkmagi wrote:
Imriel wrote:
Actually, errata 1.2 allows hearts and potions to be used by bosses and mini-bosses to remove status effects from themselves. Also Blood Drinker, as found on Von Drakk, allows the marked Consul model to use a heart in the same manner as a Hero.


That's actually up for debate. In 1.2 it says in one spot for hearts and potions and in a 2nd spot for just hearts.

I take it as just hearts and assume the potion is just a typo.


While I can kind of see the confusion, one spot is a rule change and the other is a FAQ, I see no reason the later would over rule the former, especially when they don't conflict.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonah Rees
Wales
Cardiff
South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Imriel wrote:
darkmagi wrote:
Imriel wrote:
Actually, errata 1.2 allows hearts and potions to be used by bosses and mini-bosses to remove status effects from themselves. Also Blood Drinker, as found on Von Drakk, allows the marked Consul model to use a heart in the same manner as a Hero.


That's actually up for debate. In 1.2 it says in one spot for hearts and potions and in a 2nd spot for just hearts.

I take it as just hearts and assume the potion is just a typo.


While I can kind of see the confusion, one spot is a rule change and the other is a FAQ, I see no reason the later would over rule the former, especially when they don't conflict.


They are both in the same errata in different sections of the rules. And they do conflict which is why there is confusion.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe fife
United States
charlton
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
jonahmaul wrote:
Imriel wrote:
darkmagi wrote:
Imriel wrote:
Actually, errata 1.2 allows hearts and potions to be used by bosses and mini-bosses to remove status effects from themselves. Also Blood Drinker, as found on Von Drakk, allows the marked Consul model to use a heart in the same manner as a Hero.


That's actually up for debate. In 1.2 it says in one spot for hearts and potions and in a 2nd spot for just hearts.

I take it as just hearts and assume the potion is just a typo.


While I can kind of see the confusion, one spot is a rule change and the other is a FAQ, I see no reason the later would over rule the former, especially when they don't conflict.


They are both in the same errata in different sections of the rules. And they do conflict which is why there is confusion.


Yes, they're in different sections of the same errata but the sections are different and important. One is a rules change and the second is a clarification of that rules change. And they don't conflict, because the clarification says you use hearts, it doesn't say you only use hearts or that you don't use potions. The confusion stems inconsistent statements not conflicting ones.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonah Rees
Wales
Cardiff
South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
So which is right?! The paragraph change or the reply in the FAQ?! Just because the answer in the FAQ doesn't explicitly state that you can't use potions or that you can only use hearts doesn't mean it wasn't forgotten and the initial statement about being able to use hearts and potions is correct. And vice versa. The rulebook and subsequent erratas have been poorly written so there's no way of knowing whether it is the new paragraph or the FAQ that takes precedence and this does cause a conflict. One says that you can use both, the other says that you can only use one. Whilst there is a common elements (hearts) in both statements because they are inconsistent is does a conflict as only one of the statements can be correct.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe fife
United States
charlton
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
jonahmaul wrote:
So which is right?! The paragraph change or the reply in the FAQ?! Just because the answer in the FAQ doesn't explicitly state that you can't use potions or that you can only use hearts doesn't mean it wasn't forgotten and the initial statement about being able to use hearts and potions is correct. And vice versa.


I don't think it matter whether it was an intentional omission or not, not mentioning an option isn't the same same thing as baring that option.

Quote:
The rulebook and subsequent erratas have been poorly written so there's no way of knowing whether it is the new paragraph or the FAQ that takes precedence and this does cause a conflict. One says that you can use both, the other says that you can only use one.


This is false, at no point does the errata say only hearts can be used.

Quote:
Whilst there is a common elements (hearts) in both statements because they are inconsistent is does a conflict as only one of the statements can be correct.


Only saying Hearts can be used is not the same thing as saying only Hearts can be used. There is no conflict between the statements "You may use Hearts" and "You may use Hearts and Potions," both statements can be true.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonah Rees
Wales
Cardiff
South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Imriel wrote:
This is false, at no point does the errata say only hearts can be used.


Super Dungeon Explore Errata 1.2 Page 4:

Q: Is there a way to remove status effects on
monsters?
A: Per the new errata Bosses and Mini Bosses may remove a status effect when rolling a heart on the attack roll and successfully inflicting a wound. Minions and Denizens may not remove status effects unless they have a separate ability that allows them to do so (my emphasis)



Quite clearly it only says that you can use hearts in this statement. Just because it doesn't use the word 'only' doesn't mean we can assume that it also implies that potions can be used.


Imriel wrote:
There is no conflict between the statements "You may use Hearts" and "You may use Hearts and Potions," both statements can be true



That is true but in game terms it makes a big difference. If both hearts and potions can be used then there is no issue, it is just the omission of the word potion in the FAQ part of the errata. However, if the opposite is true and only hearts can be used then the lack of clarity does cause a conflict that can only be resolved by knowing which it is.

edits - bloody quotes not working properly.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe fife
United States
charlton
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
jonahmaul wrote:
Just because it doesn't use the word 'only' doesn't mean we can assume that it also implies that potions can be used.

I'm not making an assumption,I'm deducing it from the fact that there is an earlier rule that says I can and this rule doesn't say I can't

Quote:
That is true but in game terms it makes a big difference. If both hearts and potions can be used then there is no issue, it is just the omission of the word potion in the FAQ part of the errata. However, if the opposite is true and only hearts can be used then the lack of clarity does cause a conflict that can only be resolved by knowing which it is.


The statements only conflict if you read more meaning than is actually present in the language of the FAQ. Don't get me wrong, I think SPM should clarify the topic by correcting the inconsistency, and hopefully they'll do that soon with the PDF rule book.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonah Rees
Wales
Cardiff
South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Imriel wrote:
The statements only conflict if you read more meaning than is actually present in the language of the FAQ. Don't get me wrong, I think SPM should clarify the topic by correcting the inconsistency, and hopefully they'll do that soon with the PDF rule book.


That is the problem though. As both the 'replace the paragraph' bit and the FAQ relate to the same thing (removing status effects) we don't know which takes precedence. I would like to assume that it would be the rule paragraph but as the rulebook/erratas have been so poorly written (a real shame because I love this game) we can't assume that. And agreed, hopefully the new rulebook comes sooner rather than later and clears everything up.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
flag msg tools
I agree that both potions and hearts can be used because the "rules" fix says both potions and hearts. The answer to a specific FAQ says "hearts," but doesn't explicitly limit itself to hearts.

However, looking at it from a practical standpoint, it seems to me that SPM allowed the console to remove status effects *by rolling hearts or potions* because it prevents the heroes just stacking as many status effects on a boss as possible and waiting for the boss to die knowing that the effects can never be removed. (I'm looking at you Ember Mage and Hexcast duo...)

Ironically, if only hearts can be used, then stronger bosses with only red attack dice are at a disadvantage to remove status effects because there are no hearts on the red dice. This just doesn't make sense to me or seem to fit with the purpose of letting bosses remove status effects by rolling. In other words, Rex, with 2B2R(ignoring Mob) attack dice, is significantly more likely remove a status effect than a hypothetical boss with an equal number of all red attack dice (let's say 4R to make it an straight up numbers game). If only hearts count, then only Rex can remove the effects. If both count, then they have the same odds of removing a status effect. The latter result seems to be what was intended by the rules change. (It's not the same as if heroes have only red attack dice since heroes can pass potions and hearts freely when they're rolled.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Mosley
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jonahmaul wrote:

Super Dungeon Explore Errata 1.2 Page 4:

Q: Is there a way to remove status effects on
monsters?
A: Per the new errata Bosses and Mini Bosses may remove a status effect when rolling a heart on the attack roll and successfully inflicting a wound. Minions and Denizens may not remove status effects unless they have a separate ability that allows them to do so (my emphasis)


Quite clearly it only says that you can use hearts in this statement. Just because it doesn't use the word 'only' doesn't mean we can assume that it also implies that potions can be used.


Why would the FAQ include the word "potions" to answer a question specifically asking about removing Status Effects?
Potions don't do that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonah Rees
Wales
Cardiff
South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
kevin9793 wrote:
jonahmaul wrote:

Super Dungeon Explore Errata 1.2 Page 4:

Q: Is there a way to remove status effects on
monsters?
A: Per the new errata Bosses and Mini Bosses may remove a status effect when rolling a heart on the attack roll and successfully inflicting a wound. Minions and Denizens may not remove status effects unless they have a separate ability that allows them to do so (my emphasis)


Quite clearly it only says that you can use hearts in this statement. Just because it doesn't use the word 'only' doesn't mean we can assume that it also implies that potions can be used.


Why would the FAQ include the word "potions" to answer a question specifically asking about removing Status Effects?
Potions have nothing to do do with status effects.

This Q/A also neglects to mention that the bosss can actually attack the heroes. We can clearly assume that they can though because it's mentioned elsewhere in the rules. Just like the potions thing.


Because the changed paragraph in the errata states that they can use hearts and potions to remove status effects. So if that is true then potions have everything to do with status effects! I find it odd that you are arguing this point by saying potions have nothing to do with it yet we can then assume potions can be used because it's mentioned elsewhere in the book; you are contradicting yourself. The point is that we can't assume anything because there has been so little consistency across the rulebook/errata because of how poorly written they've been and that is the issue.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.