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Subject: Thought on Rework rss

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Vincent Perry
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I like this card.

I'm sure many will say this card is terrible. provides negative tempo. However, I have been in plenty of situation in which I did NOT want to draw a card. Here are a few situations:

1) Hand with 3 agendas, and a couple of key cards that you can't use now (ice that won't be in the right place, economy cards you can't protect, or cards you can't play til the right conditions have been met (SEA Source, Big Brother, etc.) Your dread drawing your next card because you are going to have to discard one of these key cards...and you draw Rework. Whew!

2) You have a Melange behind ice that the runner can't break, and you want to keep using it as long as you can. Again, if you draw rework, instead of needing to discard a card, you can instead stick it back into your deck and Melange a couple more turns before needing to discard.

3) Snare!/Fetal AI in your hand, but your hand is well iced/the runner isn't pressuring it. Put them back into R&D.

How else can you use this card?

The key thing to remember, I think, is that as a corp, you dont always want more cards (as opposed to the runner, and as opposed to practically every other card game.) In general, more cards are better, but I think that there are plenty of situations in which you want fewer cards in HQ, you want to get a particular card out of HQ, or you want a particular card in R&D.
 
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Ian Toltz
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theodorelogan wrote:
I'm sure many will say this card is terrible.


I don't think many will say that at all. Being able to hide an agenda from your hand is golden. That there are other potential uses is only gravy.

I see this being most useful in a deck that's relatively heavy on agenda, i.e. lots of 2- and maybe even 1-point agendas. I've been playing some decks lately with low agenda counts (7 agendas in 49 cards), where my plan is to get a super-fort established quickly and then advance agendas before the runner's rig is capable of handling the fort. I probably wouldn't run Rework in a deck like this.
 
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Ryan Angell
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i really wish rework was neutral. it would have a place in jinteki to put agendas back in the deck.

a common problem when you play with snares, neural emps, and fetals is you eventually reach a point where you have to discard snare/fetal/emp or Nisei/braintrust and every time this happens you will ditch a neural emp and it seems as soon as you do the runner slips up and you miss your flatline window.

i will still probably try it but jinteki has other more important holes to plug for 3 influence i think.


 
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Evan
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sniktsnikt wrote:
i really wish rework was neutral. it would have a place in jinteki to put agendas back in the deck.

a common problem when you play with snares, neural emps, and fetals is you eventually reach a point where you have to discard snare/fetal/emp or Nisei/braintrust and every time this happens you will ditch a neural emp and it seems as soon as you do the runner slips up and you miss your flatline window.

i will still probably try it but jinteki has other more important holes to plug for 3 influence i think.




Occasionally I've used Exec Retreats for this reason, though that obviously comes with its own problems.

There are some cases in which Rework would good for the shuffle effect, for example, (as has been mentioned) after an unsuccessful Precog, or possibly if you've just been Maker's'd.
A few other marginal possibilities:
-If you have Snares/Fetals in hand and you want the runner to get in, you can get rid of the non-traps. edit: especially if they're using Nerve Agent or HQ Interface
-If your opponent is running Imp, and you have some Ops that you want to protect for later.
 
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Ryan Angell
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yeah those are all good things to do but are they worth influence and what are you cutting out to fit rework into the deck ?
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Evan
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Oh, sure. It's an interesting card that can be fairly useful in a number of situations, but I think its main problem is that it's not (yet?) integral to any particular strategy, nor consistently powerful enough to be worth including. It's the corps' answer to Cortez Chip
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Kaiwen Zhang
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It's a cantrip whose value is intangible.
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Magnus Benzein
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I can see it played in decks with several 3-point agendas, especially big ICE HB. Atm corp play is more about tempo though.
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Paul Ripley
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How about pairing it up with Anonymous Tip? Then you can dig through your deck faster for cards you want with the ability to throw back an agenda if you don't want it.
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Ony Moose
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Immediate Combos:
Agendas you don't want
Archer(return for another chance at rezzing with BetaTest)
Precog
Medium(after runner digs 4 cards deep and you need an agenda, shuffle is good)
ScorchedEarth + Atlas counters (don't want to leave SE in your hand where its vulnerable to imp)
And its one of the few cards to grow R&D, which might be helpful vs a noise deck if you are close to being decked.
Snares/FetalAIs you'd rather have in R&D.
 
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Justin
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johncraven wrote:
It's a cantrip whose value is intangible.

It's a cantrip?
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Adam Perry
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astroglide wrote:
johncraven wrote:
It's a cantrip whose value is intangible.

It's a cantrip?


it costs zero credits to play.
 
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Scott Burns
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It's good versus Gabe, and not good against Kate, and worse against Noise.
 
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Justin
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experimilk wrote:
astroglide wrote:
johncraven wrote:
It's a cantrip whose value is intangible.

It's a cantrip?

it costs zero credits to play.

http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Cantrip

A cantrip is a slang term used to refer to a spell that draws a card in addition to its other effects (usually minor) and can therefore be said to replace itself. The term originated from a Dungeons & Dragons slang for a spell with a minor effect. Cantrips are included in decks for varying reasons. A cantrip can effectively "thin" a deck, so more useful cards can be drawn faster, while at the same time not losing card advantage. It can also inexpensively increase the number of spells played in a turn, which is a key factor in some decks. Some cantrips have additional effects which can serve as an answer to an obstacle in play.
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Ian Toltz
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experimilk wrote:
astroglide wrote:
johncraven wrote:
It's a cantrip whose value is intangible.

It's a cantrip?


it costs zero credits to play.


A cantrip is a card with a minor effect that replaces itself (i.e. do something small and draw a card).

Edit: ninja
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Ben Asher
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A clumsy man can trip. Must he draw a card to do so?
 
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Justin
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Green Level Clearance is a good example of a cantrip.
 
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Andrew Lieffring
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Net Shield is a good example of a canrip.
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Kaiwen Zhang
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Asmor wrote:
experimilk wrote:
astroglide wrote:
johncraven wrote:
It's a cantrip whose value is intangible.

It's a cantrip?


it costs zero credits to play.


A cantrip is a card with a minor effect that replaces itself (i.e. do something small and draw a card).

Edit: ninja


Oh sorry, I read somewhere that Precognition is considered a cantrip, so I thought this is similar.
 
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Jeff Gum
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Honestly, I have a strong hunch that Rework is the new Bullfrog. Much like Bullfrog was useless before Whirlpool (instead of just bad), I think there's another half to Rework we're not seeing. What that piece of the puzzle is, I don't know. Definitely looks like a combo card to me, though.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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Tekkactus wrote:
Honestly, I have a strong hunch that Rework is the new Bullfrog. Much like Bullfrog was useless before Whirlpool (instead of just bad), I think there's another half to Rework we're not seeing. What that piece of the puzzle is, I don't know. Definitely looks like a combo card to me, though.


I dont think its a combo card. Its a defense against early aggression, for when you draw an agendas and really dont want to.
Or its a sorta-combo card with Snare, against R&D attackers.


Also netrunner doesnt really have cantrips.
In magic, a draw is a very scarce resource, and a 'cantrip' let you spend mana to do a one time effect, without the loss of the card.

I guess a netrunner cantrip would be:
"Gain a click, draw a card, do X". It doesnt need to cost 0, but it could. It replaces both the card an click so its click neutral. Its lets to convert some resource, like deck space or credits, into something else (whatever the do X is).
 
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Kevin Shanahan
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(deleted my post about this in another thread)

theodorelogan wrote:
I like this card.

I'm sure many will say this card is terrible. provides negative tempo. However, I have been in plenty of situation in which I did NOT want to draw a card. Here are a few situations:

1) Hand with 3 agendas, and a couple of key cards that you can't use now (ice that won't be in the right place, economy cards you can't protect, or cards you can't play til the right conditions have been met (SEA Source, Big Brother, etc.) Your dread drawing your next card because you are going to have to discard one of these key cards...and you draw Rework. Whew!

2) You have a Melange behind ice that the runner can't break, and you want to keep using it as long as you can. Again, if you draw rework, instead of needing to discard a card, you can instead stick it back into your deck and Melange a couple more turns before needing to discard.

3) Snare!/Fetal AI in your hand, but your hand is well iced/the runner isn't pressuring it. Put them back into R&D.

How else can you use this card?


- Whenever you know that the next few cards coming up in R&D are not useful. (Precog'd and didn't like what you saw) An unwanted card in hand would be a bonus.

- When you're sure that that the next successful run on HQ/R&D is going to give the runner an agenda.

- When you're sure that the next successful run on R&D will cause you to lose the game.

- Combo with recursion effects to rework used Snares back into R&D.
 
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Gin Teki
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How about Rework and Archived Memories? Useful against Noise's special ability. Means you can either take back an agenda from Archives and send it into R&D, or take back an agenda and pretend to store it in R&D
 
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Ben Finkel
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Alexfrog wrote:
I guess a netrunner cantrip would be:
"Gain a click, draw a card, do X". It doesnt need to cost 0, but it could.


I don't think they'd ever have a 0-cost card that did that, especially not for Runner. Even if it did nothing else, it would effectively shrink the deck minimum by three cards. Diesel is similar, I suppose, but at least it costs a click to use (even though you'd use that click to draw anyway).
 
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Hugo L
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Tekkactus wrote:
Honestly, I have a strong hunch that Rework is the new Bullfrog. Much like Bullfrog was useless before Whirlpool (instead of just bad), I think there's another half to Rework we're not seeing. What that piece of the puzzle is, I don't know. Definitely looks like a combo card to me, though.


I feel like rework could have some value in a 7 agenda deck, where you aim for the late game. Early agendas are just send back to R&D to slow the pace of the game. But since it's a "small effect" card, it's hard to justify a deck slot for it. I guess that if you could build an already strong enough 7 agenda deck with only 46 cards then it could be possible to include it.

I may give it a try, for science.
 
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