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Fallen City of Karez» Forums » Rules

Subject: Scroll of Protection rss

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Timothy Pride
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We have great debate about the usefulness of this card. The card is open to many interpretations, and some of it just plain awful.

The card ability was "add extra hit point" with 5 dots blue dice shown.

The questions are
- Can we choose the number of the dots? or it's strictly 5?
- Is the effect permanent or temporary? How temporary?


Let's just analyze this one by one. If we cannot choose the number, then it will be useless to anyone except Cleric (since only cleric use 5 dots hit points). Why would you want to add another hit point to let you get hit in which you normally don't? Or, if you use it before dying, then it's just a very weak version of healing. Any healing items give better situation than that. And it also begets second question.

If it's temporary, isn't that make it more useless? At the end of encounter your hero still die? If it was the last encounter and it was your last hero (but you killed the encounter), does the exploration considered success or failed? If it's permanent, then back at 1st question, can we choose the number? If not, it has no use to other heroes except Cleric.

If it's just by reading the rules and being consistent with other items, the answer would be 1. Cannot choose the number, and 2. Temporary. But that means it will be so useless compared to another items, so I'm having a hard time believing it. What do you guys think?
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Kris Ardianto
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Thought so you would post this question Mot.
Another approach I think of would be, additional hit point of 5 (this is correct, only useful to cleric). It's temporary, which means you can store / assign 1 damage to this additional hit point and it removed from the cleric once you finished the round (the principle of instants). So it like absorbs 1 damage from your cleric and remove the damage along with the additional hit point within 1 round.

I think of another idea of this instant, the scroll does not only give you additional hit point of 5, but any number you want (this way you can assign to different heroes other than cleric) and absorb one damage during one round. A good one and worth the value I think. If this is supposed to be useful for the cleric, the card should have cleric name written on it.
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John Van Wagoner
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Bluffton
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I REALLY REALLY hope a new rulebook is about to be posted!!!
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Timothy Pride
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vardamir wrote:
Thought so you would post this question Mot.
Another approach I think of would be, additional hit point of 5 (this is correct, only useful to cleric). It's temporary, which means you can store / assign 1 damage to this additional hit point and it removed from the cleric once you finished the round (the principle of instants). So it like absorbs 1 damage from your cleric and remove the damage along with the additional hit point within 1 round.


But if you really think about this, other healing items (Healing Potion, Mana Potion, Healing Herb) do effectively the same thing (removing/prevent 1 wound) and more (if you have the correct heroes). And healing potion even use healing die. It's still way below par.
 
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Kris Ardianto
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Darkmot wrote:
vardamir wrote:
Thought so you would post this question Mot.
Another approach I think of would be, additional hit point of 5 (this is correct, only useful to cleric). It's temporary, which means you can store / assign 1 damage to this additional hit point and it removed from the cleric once you finished the round (the principle of instants). So it like absorbs 1 damage from your cleric and remove the damage along with the additional hit point within 1 round.


But if you really think about this, other healing items (Healing Potion, Mana Potion, Healing Herb) do effectively the same thing (removing/prevent 1 wound) and more (if you have the correct heroes). And healing potion even use healing die. It's still way below par.


Yes, indeed. This one should have been an Equipment to at least make it worth while. Like Spell Tome, Arcane Shield or else. Can be used once in an encounter does handy.
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Owen Fingerhut
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I think a better homebrew variant for it is to have it prevent all monster attacks for one round. This would make it unique and situationally better than a healing item.
 
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Elad Goldsteen
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First I wish to thank you for discussing about this card as it is a unique Instant.

This card is what it is a temporal blue '5' hitpoint.

There are many uses for this card as it might "save" (or delay) a Hero from death till the end of an encounter by adding him a new hitpoint (he will die at the end of the encounter if he does not get to heal his wounds).

Another good use is to buffer the Cleric or any level-up Hero that uses the blue '5' hitpoint.

I wish to point that not every card should fit any player. Some are useful for all classes and some are very good for a specific class.

You will find more unique equipment cards in the future expansion that will add new mechanics to the battle system.
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Kris Ardianto
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eg1105 wrote:
First I wish to thank you for discussing about this card as it is a unique Instant.

This card is what it is a temporal blue '5' hitpoint.

There are many uses for this card as it might "save" (or delay) a Hero from death till the end of an encounter by adding him a new hitpoint (he will die at the end of the encounter if he does not get to heal his wounds).

Another good use is to buffer the Cleric or any level-up Hero that uses the blue '5' hitpoint.

I wish to point that not every card should fit any player. Some are useful for all classes and some are very good for a specific class.

You will find more unique equipment cards in the future expansion that will add new mechanics to the battle system.


So the instant is it is as it is.
It really useful to prolong a hero's (cleric) life to deal another attacking dice in the next 1 round of battle before he died. This is useful to buff up the party before you lose another hero, in this case if you ever has another hero other than the hero using the scroll of protection.
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Owen Fingerhut
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Another potential use: Keep a ranger alive until more wounds are caused to allies to get the maximum use from nature medicine.
 
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Timothy Pride
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eg1105 wrote:
This card is what it is a temporal blue '5' hitpoint.


So it's the worst case possible. I guess this means if it's down to last hero and last encounter means the adventure has failed.


eg1105 wrote:
There are many uses for this card as it might "save" (or delay) a Hero from death till the end of an encounter by adding him a new hitpoint (he will die at the end of the encounter if he does not get to heal his wounds).

Another good use is to buffer the Cleric or any level-up Hero that uses the blue '5' hitpoint.


The way I see it, that's not "many" uses. That's just "few and limited" uses. Like I pointed out before, why would I want to use Scroll of Protection, if I can use healing or mana potion with same or more effect, and permanently? Even in your 1st example you still need another healing items to make it useful. Since you can heal in the nick of death, why would you want to use Scroll of Protection, if you can heal it right away with other items? It's a waste of gold and item spaces.


eg1105 wrote:
I wish to point that not every card should fit any player. Some are useful for all classes and some are very good for a specific class.


My problem with this card is not "good in some cases, but bad in other cases". My problem is that this card is "bad in all cases"

Unless... It's a case of "Haha, there's no other healing items at market, only Scroll of Protection, sucks to be you!" Or you're in a camp of "bad item is better than no item". If that's the design intention, then I can't argue no more (though I won't like it). But that doesn't seem to be the case here.
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Mark Llewellyn
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I agree with all your comments and the usefulness of this card. I think a house rule that you can roll the green defence dice instead of a temporary 5 hit point - or if you have a Cleric give him the 5 as stated, this would give other heros some defence and be more like a scroll of protection.
 
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