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Subject: does anyone else feel that the card abilities are too swingy ? rss

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Jonathan Er
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just managed to get in my first play of the game yesterday night

the bits are awesome, the game is pretty good, and its my first Kickstarter that actually came BEFORE the given deadline. color me impressed.


i enjoyed the play of my game and hope to get in more in the coming months. but i have a slight nagging feeling in my mind about the nature of some of the cards

in our game last night, one card in particular was played by myself and my friend ( also my podcast buddy ) and we ended up first and second respectively, with me winning by only 2 or 3 points.

i dont remember the name of the card but it gave you points for uprooting a vein in a field. with the point value being the grape value of the vine.

so i managed to gain 4 points for uprooting my red grape ( value 4 ) vein.
that gave me an early headstart from the rest and i didnt look back ( though i did end up second before the penultimate round )

thinking back, that was and is possibly the easiest way to score points in the game. ever.
plant a vein - 1 action, play a card - 1 action
and that could be anything like 3 or 4 points

but comparing to:

1) wine orders
- require action to fill
- require at least 2 actions to get the wine

2) other cards
- there was one card which gives you 3 points for discarding 2 wines from a medium or large cellar
- another card which gives you 1 point and 1 residual dollar for discarding 1 grape and 1 wine
- also another which gives you 1 point per field with at least one vine ( is also a very good card but takes awhile to attain the max of 3 points. 2 points is pretty easy which well, i wont hate on it yet )



so i am thinking that i dont quite like the ability of the card. i find it slightly too powerful. and thats my only gripe on the game so far

does anyone think or feel the same ?


also, if you do, what variants can you suggest ?

i have 4 trains of thought at the moment

1) cap the point from that card to 2 points ( regardless of vine uprooted )

2) half the point value of the card ( rounded down ) with a minimum of 1 ( so a 3 vine gives you 1 point and the 4 vine is the only one that gives you 2 points )

3) impose a coin value to use the card ( i was initially thinking 2 dollars before i went to sleep, but i woke up thinking 4 or 5 dollars would have been a better limit )

4) leave the card out completely




any thoughts from those who have played the game and have seen the effects of the card on gameplay ?





thanks

sorry for the long post


**edit for bold for easier reading




Jonathan
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James Cheng
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I just have my second play last night, and I have that card played by another player. We both get to the same score at the end, and I won by having more lira/money. I think it's powerful, but other cards are also good in certain situation. But I'll have to play more time.

I won by utilizing every alternative scoring (6th wake up, selling grapes, giving tours, and planting vine through windmill), I've only complete one order at the very end, which puts me side by side with the second place player.
 
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Rob Bell
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Seems that my wife and I have our faces on a very talked about and controversial card.

cool



I can't wait to receive this game!!!
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Jonathan Er
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hi Rob


yes that is the card in question !
hahaha. well, no offense to your "special ability"
:P


hope you get your game soon
its pretty nice IMO
and i'm glad it came way earlier than expected





Jon
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Jonathan--Thanks for your post. I do agree that it is a powerful card in the game--in fact, all of the visitor cards are powerful, some moreso at different points in the game. This is a card that's particularly good late in the game when you've harvested all the grapes you need.

Originally the card didn't have the words "discard it," and it was indeed too powerful. You could just replay the vine right after you uproot it. So now you permanently lose something that you took time to plant earlier in the game, and you no longer get production from it.

Keep in mind that getting 4 points out of this card is the best case scenario. I've played many games when I haven't built Irrigation, limiting me to smaller vines that I try to harvest a lot. So if I drew this card in those games, I would probably only get 2 or 3 points.

Thanks for your feedback, though! I hope the game continues to be fun after multiple plays.
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Bruce Bridges
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I completely agree that the Horticulturist card is way too powerful. It's basically only three actions (draw vine card, plant vine card, play summer card) to get 4 points if you are fortunate in the card draw. Nothing else even comes close. Our first game was absolutely decided by the card last night with somebody using the card in the last round to win by 1. No, I was not the person who got edged out.

Not only did he get the benefit of harvesting 4 value chardonnay for much of the game, but then he scored an additional 4 VPs by playing one card.

I agree that the VP award should be capped at 2.
 
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Jeffrey Smith
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By my count just the summer visitors can account for about 31 victory points if played properly. The winter visitors account for less direct victory points (about 20 if I remember correctly), but many also allow you to take actions that help fulfill orders. Lately I've been building the cottage every game to try to optimize my visitors. Then hit the bonus visitor spaces for some killer combos.

Are they "swingy"? Heck yes, and I love it!
 
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Jeffrey Smith
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tgbruiser wrote:
It's basically only three actions (draw vine card, plant vine card, play summer card) to get 4 points if you are fortunate in the card draw.
Don't forget you also need to build irrigation and have the money as well, so that is at least one if not two extra actions.
 
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Ender Wiggins
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tgbruiser wrote:
I completely agree that the Horticulturist card is way too powerful. It's basically only three actions (draw vine card, plant vine card, play summer card) to get 4 points if you are fortunate in the card draw. Nothing else even comes close. Our first game was absolutely decided by the card last night with somebody using the card in the last round to win by 1. No, I was not the person who got edged out.

Not only did he get the benefit of harvesting 4 value chardonnay for much of the game, but then he scored an additional 4 VPs by playing one card.

I agree that the VP award should be capped at 2.

It's worth mentioning that the Horticulturist is one of only three cards that will be changed in the second edition, presumably to address concerns like the ones mentioned above. It will now read:

Horticulturist: Plant any 1 vine even if you don’t have the structure(s) required OR uproot and discard 2 vine cards to gain 3 VP.
 
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Jonathan Er
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EndersGame wrote:
tgbruiser wrote:
I completely agree that the Horticulturist card is way too powerful. It's basically only three actions (draw vine card, plant vine card, play summer card) to get 4 points if you are fortunate in the card draw. Nothing else even comes close. Our first game was absolutely decided by the card last night with somebody using the card in the last round to win by 1. No, I was not the person who got edged out.

Not only did he get the benefit of harvesting 4 value chardonnay for much of the game, but then he scored an additional 4 VPs by playing one card.

I agree that the VP award should be capped at 2.

It's worth mentioning that the Horticulturist is one of only three cards that will be changed in the second edition, presumably to address concerns like the ones mentioned above. It will now read:

Horticulturist: Plant any 1 vine even if you don’t have the structure(s) required OR uproot and discard 2 vine cards to gain 3 VP.


Oh dear, I'm not too keen on the change to the handyman card
I'm already having problems with the guest speaker card in a 5 or 6 player game where the card is then worth one quarter of the points required to win the game. With the amended handyman, there will be 2 cards worth one quarter the points required to win the card. Very meh for me

Wished both cards scaled for the number of players in the game

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