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Subject: Sharing Information rss

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Horsie Palamino
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I am curious. What kinds of information can you share with the other players?

1) Cards in Hand
2) Cards drawn from the Quorum Deck
3) Cards drawn from the Travel Deck
4) Cards drawn from the Crisis Deck through Scouting or Abilities.

Granted, you can lie, but are you allowed to actually divulge information? Such as "I have an XO", or "I can Bring Morale Up with something", or "Both locations were worth 1 Distance", or "17 to pass, has Jump and no Raiders." The answers to these factors might change gameplay dramatically. Thanks. :3
 
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This is "bad"/"good"/"worse"/"better".

I can do "something" about those Raiders if someone can XO me.

I can contribute a "lot"/"little" to that skill check if we go for it.

That's about the level of detail you're allowed to share around my gaming table. Too much info will break the game.
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Harold Tessmann III
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Palamino wrote:
I am curious. What kinds of information can you share with the other players?

1) Cards in Hand
2) Cards drawn from the Quorum Deck
3) Cards drawn from the Travel Deck
4) Cards drawn from the Crisis Deck through Scouting or Abilities.

Granted, you can lie, but are you allowed to actually divulge information? Such as "I have an XO", or "I can Bring Morale Up with something", or "Both locations were worth 1 Distance", or "17 to pass, has Jump and no Raiders." The answers to these factors might change gameplay dramatically. Thanks. :3

See the Secrecy section on page 20, and if that doesn't satisfy you and your group, go to Fantasy Flight's page for the game and print off the Errata & FAQ, which has a page of more detailed secrecy guidelines. They don't cover all your questions precisely, but I'd go with the overarching guideline that you may ask/tell about general capability, but not about specifics, and you should only describe quantitative things in terms of "high" or "low" or "better" and "worse". That is, you can say "I can help on dice rolls" or "I have an Executive Order", but you shouldn't use this as a way to simply list off the cards in your hand, and you definitely can't say the strength value on those cards. You can declare someone a Cylon after looking at their loyalty card, but you can't say "and I know this because the card does this on reveal" or "and they have only one Cylon card". You can't say specific information about a hidden game element (card, civilian ship, etc.) but you can say "I buried a really bad one" or "if we have to lose a civilian ship, lose this one first". When adding to a skill check, you can say "helping a lot" or "helping a little", but not "adding a moderately high amount" (unless adding multiple cards, in which case "a medium amount" becomes an option).

To answer your questions directly:

1. From the FAQ, the number of cards in each player's hand, each skill deck, the Quorum deck, and the destiny deck are public information. You may ask and answer about specific cards ("I have a repair card" or "I can handle repairs for a long time"), but you can't list their values, and you can't simply list off your cards' powers or poll to learn other players' hands.
2. The Quorum section of the rules says that you keep the Quorum cards secret, but the rules and FAQ don't discuss that level of secrecy further. We play that you can discuss what your cards do if relevant to the current action, i.e. "don't worry about losing Morale, I can make a speech to raise it" or "don't go for the Airlock, just try to Brig him and I'll take care of the rest", but not list their abilities at will.
3. The Secrecy section of the rules says that, if you have the ability to look at the top card(s) of a deck, you may not disclose specific information about them. The FAQ recommends referring only to the cards as "bad" or "good", or if you prefer "bad" and "worse". I would stick to that rule when the Admiral chooses which card to play and which to put on the bottom of the deck. That said, I can't think of any game effect that lets you look at the bottom of the deck, so I don't know how you could catch someone in a lie that way. Others have pointed out a Quorum card that allows looking at the bottom of the deck, and even without that, you don't want to leak information by discussing specifics in any way.
4. See again the Secrecy section of the rules. Leave it at "bad" and "good"; definitely don't announce type of card, difficulty, colors, or effect icons.
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Palamino wrote:
I am curious. What kinds of information can you share with the other players?

1) Cards in Hand
# of skill cards in hand.
Yes or no to A FEW specific cards like "do you have SP/Repair/XO/IC". They shouldn't be asked all at once since you can formulate a char's hand this way

skill checks, low or high for a single card, low or medium or high for 2 or more cards.

The following have varied from group to group...
2 or more play SP/IC, coordinating who has the 3 vs. 5-str one
Asking if you're gonna play DE while the check is still taking place

Palamino wrote:
2) Cards drawn from the Quorum Deck
# of Qcards in hand, what's been discarded as they're being discarded. If it's not offic. true or otherwise, we have asked the pres. if she has ABF. Else, we've been vague, and if the pres. says she can handle cents, that's often translated into having ABF.


Palamino wrote:
3) Cards drawn from the Travel Deck
I think you mean Destination deck, as Travel Deck would be from Shadows Over Camelot: Merlin's Company, and we tend to not mention that here
"Good" or "bad" really. Somehow, saying a 1 was buried seems to be too much.

Palamino wrote:
4) Cards drawn from the Crisis Deck through Scouting or Abilities.
"no jump" has been blurted on occassion, but I'd say "good" or "bad" as well.

Granted, you can lie, but are you allowed to actually divulge information? Such as "I have an XO", or "I can Bring Morale Up with something", or "Both locations were worth 1 Distance", or "17 to pass, has Jump and no Raiders." The answers to these factors might change gameplay dramatically. Thanks. :3[/q]
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Pieter
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Palamino wrote:
"I have an XO"

Officially no, but if someone asks you can say "yes I have an XO". In general, in our games we allow the announcement without being asked explicitly.

Palamino wrote:
"I can Bring Morale Up with something"

Same answer, you officially can't say this, but if someone asks "do you have a speech" you are allowed to answer, so again, in our game we allow such announcements.

Palamino wrote:
"Both locations were worth 1 Distance"

No, definitely not.

Palamino wrote:
"17 to pass, has Jump and no Raiders."

Even worse than the last one, definitely not.
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Pasi Ojala
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MacMog wrote:
I can't think of any game effect that lets you look at the bottom of the deck, so I don't know how you could catch someone in a lie that way.


There's a Quorum card having this effect (Consult the Oracle) from the Pegasus expansion.

(Consult the Oracle - Action: Look at the bottom card of any 1 deck. Then look at all cards in the Destiny deck and discard 2 of them. Then shuffle the Destiny deck and discard this card.)
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Robert Stewart
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You are always allowed to suggest courses of action to other players. For example, as President, with a Centurion one step from Humans Lose, a revealed Cylon playing next, and another player, Bob, already at the Armory, you might say "I think you should XO me rather than Bob" - which could mean that you already have ABF in hand, or that you figure that there's a better chance of drawing one in the top three quorum cards than of hitting 7-8 in two rolls...
 
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thestor thestor
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Flyboy Connor wrote:
Palamino wrote:
"Both locations were worth 1 Distance"

No, definitely not.

Is there a card or ability that let's you precheck TWO locations? And anyway, why are you not allowed to say this? You could after all be lying, no?
 
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thestor wrote:
Flyboy Connor wrote:
Palamino wrote:
"Both locations were worth 1 Distance"

No, definitely not.

Is there a card or ability that let's you precheck TWO locations? And anyway, why are you not allowed to say this? You could after all be lying, no?
No way to scout 2 destination at once. That's why Roslin's special is very nice with crisis cards... she gets to look at 2 at once, and pick one of the 2, rather than LS or Boomer's Recon in burying the top card, but then being stuck with the next one

Somebody once posted that if you're using the phrase "you can always be lying" as a way to share info, then that RIGHT THERE is the red flag that you're saying too much, and I agree. Since humans would always tell the truth while cylons had a choice, a cylon that lies can usually be outed much more easily. There would be MUCH LESS options for acylon top get away with it.
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Matt Clementson
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MacMog wrote:
I would stick to that rule when the Admiral chooses which card to play and which to put on the bottom of the deck. That said, I can't think of any game effect that lets you look at the bottom of the deck, so I don't know how you could catch someone in a lie that way.

As well as Consult the Oracle that's already been mentioned - the simple way to catch the Admiral out in a lie is that another player has previously scouted the destination deck, left the card on top but the Admiral has then played the other card. The scouting player knows for certain which card was not used in this instance.
 
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Pieter
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ackmondual wrote:
Somebody once posted that if you're using the phrase "you can always be lying" as a way to share info, then that RIGHT THERE is the red flag that you're saying too much, and I agree.

Exactly.

Imagine a player saying: "I currently hold a 1-XO, two Declare Emergencies, one valued 3 and one valued 5, and two Launch Scouts, both valued 2. Why shouldn't I be allowed to say that? I could be lying, right?"
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Robert Stewart
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Flyboy Connor wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Somebody once posted that if you're using the phrase "you can always be lying" as a way to share info, then that RIGHT THERE is the red flag that you're saying too much, and I agree.

Exactly.

Imagine a player saying: "I currently hold a 1-XO, two Declare Emergencies, one valued 3 and one valued 5, and two Launch Scouts, both valued 2. Why shouldn't I be allowed to say that? I could be lying, right?"


"Somebody" may have been me - I've certainly posted that sentiment before.

Anyway, the problem with allowing players to list their exact hand (or, worse, state their skill check contributions) is that it then becomes: "if you don't say exactly what cards you're holding, and which of them you're playing into skill checks, then you're a Cylon" - it totally destroys a Cylon's ability to sabotage skill checks secretly because they then have to claim to be playing a card that probably won't turn up in the check - or claim to be playing the same card as someone else, having already claimed it to be in their hand...

It totally demolishes the element of bluff and concealment that gives the game its hidden-traitor element...
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thestor thestor
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I agree of course, being caught lying is a one way ticket to either brig or airlock. The case where I consider telling all is acceptable is when the truth of the statement is impossible to verify. For example, you scout a location. If you return the card to the top, then of course you may not say what you found specifically. But if you return it to the bottom, wouldn't it be permissible to make all sorts of claims, since nobody can check it anymore?
 
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Mindy G
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But it can be checked by Consult the Oracle.
 
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thestor wrote:
I agree of course, being caught lying is a one way ticket to either brig or airlock. The case where I consider telling all is acceptable is when the truth of the statement is impossible to verify. For example, you scout a location. If you return the card to the top, then of course you may not say what you found specifically. But if you return it to the bottom, wouldn't it be permissible to make all sorts of claims, since nobody can check it anymore?


Consult The Oracle (Peg)
Quote:
Action: Look at the bottom card of any 1 deck. Then look at all cards in the Destiny deck and discard 2 of them. Then shuffle the Destiny deck and discard this card.

This Qcard lets you view the bottom of any deck (except for loyalty card deck of course )

Even if you're not playing with Pegasus, being specific still gives too much information.
1) A known human who's telling the truth can give humans the knowledge of what Dest. cards hace been buried.
2) A known human says he's been burying 1s. A suspected cylon says he's been burying 1s too. In this case, you can strongly suspect the cylon of being a cylon since every1 would start asking questions like "just how many 1s are there in the game?" and "could we possibly have gone through all of them?". With the secrecy rules in place, the most a human can say is "bad", if even that. That right there gives the suspected cylon more wiggle room.


Unverifiable information is still information.

Case point... Baltar's OPG would be ALOT different if he weren't allowed to say ANYTHING about the loyalty cards he examined, even if he could always lie about what he saw.
 
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Harold Tessmann III
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a1bert wrote:
MacMog wrote:
I can't think of any game effect that lets you look at the bottom of the deck, so I don't know how you could catch someone in a lie that way.


There's a Quorum card having this effect (Consult the Oracle) from the Pegasus expansion.

(Consult the Oracle - Action: Look at the bottom card of any 1 deck. Then look at all cards in the Destiny deck and discard 2 of them. Then shuffle the Destiny deck and discard this card.)

I plead ignorance of the effects of every Quorum card, primarily because the idiots good people on board Galactica don't trust their Chief Engineer enough to vote him into office. I mean, they can verify my humanity—a Cylon Chief Engineer would just activate the self-destruct sequence, for frak's sake!—but then my opponents start making nutty allegations about magic underwear and the populace buys it, so I never get even 10% of the vote.
 
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baldrick wrote:
MacMog wrote:
I would stick to that rule when the Admiral chooses which card to play and which to put on the bottom of the deck. That said, I can't think of any game effect that lets you look at the bottom of the deck, so I don't know how you could catch someone in a lie that way.

As well as Consult the Oracle that's already been mentioned - the simple way to catch the Admiral out in a lie is that another player has previously scouted the destination deck, left the card on top but the Admiral has then played the other card. The scouting player knows for certain which card was not used in this instance.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that nobody should reveal specific information about cards they've seen via scouting or Admiralty, but I think you make too many assumptions in this case. So the Admiral plays a one, saying "they both had distance one", at which point another player says "I just scouted that deck and I saw a three!" You know now that someone lied, but nothing in this exchange indicates that the Admiral lied. He could very well have gotten a pair of ones. You may even have a particularly devious pair of Cylons here, where the accuser plans to stay unrevealed but gain the other players' trust by accusing a (soon to reveal) Admiral. (Battlestar Galactica becomes extra entertaining when two of your usual players also play poker pretty well.)
 
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MacMog wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I agree that nobody should reveal specific information about cards they've seen via scouting or Admiralty, but I think you make too many assumptions in this case. So the Admiral plays a one, saying "they both had distance one", at which point another player says "I just scouted that deck and I saw a three!" You know now that someone lied, but nothing in this exchange indicates that the Admiral lied. He could very well have gotten a pair of ones. You may even have a particularly devious pair of Cylons here, where the accuser plans to stay unrevealed but gain the other players' trust by accusing a (soon to reveal) Admiral. (Battlestar Galactica becomes extra entertaining when two of your usual players also play poker pretty well.)


Whichever of the Scout and the Admiral is telling the truth finds out the other's loyalty (the risk of allowing this is that the scout left a 2 on top and you've just let the Cylons identify each other).

The group as a whole discovers that one of the Cylons is one of two people - with 3-4 players, that gives them a known non-Cylon; with 5-6, they only need to get similar information about a pair of the other players to have at least one known non-Cylon.

In this scenario, it's enough for the Admiral to claim the other Destination was worse, and the scouting player to say the one they left on top was better (if they have sufficiently different ideas about which Destinations are better than others, hilarity ensues...)
 
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rmsgrey wrote:
(if they have sufficiently different ideas about which Destinations are better than others, hilarity ensues...)


This happens even more with some Pegasus and Exodus destinations

(Edit: And when you have a PG that requires 6 vipers to be damaged/destroyed.)
 
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Ultimately if you aren't sure, just say "I don't believe I can answer that" and encourage people not to ask certain questions.

See how the game goes, if it definitely feels off come to BGG or review the rules after the game to clarify.

Keep in mind just about everything is supposed to be secret.
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