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Subject: 2P advanced game, why? rss

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Markus
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ldsdbomber wrote:
What are the benefits of playing the advanced game, and do you think it requires that you're pretty comfortable with playing decently well before doing? Can anyone give some general and perhaps even a specific example or two as to what the game gains rather than just using the one each round (other than making the game faster I suppose)


I jumped into the advanced game after playing the basic game five or so times. You don't really need to be that comfortable with the game before you can switch modes. As for the benefits, I guess making the game faster is the main one. It also feels more fulfilling, as you'll be able to get more done in a single turn and there are some nice combos you can do by playing two cards in a turn.
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ldsdbomber wrote:
What are the benefits of playing the advanced game

It takes less time to finish a game.

ldsdbomber wrote:
and do you think it requires that you're pretty comfortable with playing decently well before doing?

Nah, what's necessary is understanding all the phases and symbols. You can jump right in after that.

ldsdbomber wrote:
Can anyone give some general and perhaps even a specific example or two as to what the game gains rather than just using the one each round

You can play interesting combos independent of your opponent, like I/I, II/II, III/III, III/$, $/V, x2/V.
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I prefer the 2P version by far the most. It makes the game so much faster (and intense), and its easier to find one person to play with than two or more.

Also, I feel 2P gives me more control over my choices and gameplay. I have a better chance to rely on my own strategies than trying to guess what everyone else is going to do. More than two players is fine, but to me it's a different game with a different dynamic, and I find playing 2P to be more fun.

Finally, I think the best way to prepare for 2P is to just play it because it requires unique strategies that you just have to learn and pick up. I love playing normal rules when a group wants to play, but I'll seek out a friend for 2P.
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Advanced game is faster, more fun and allows more strategy.
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Derry Salewski
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I've played like 99.99 percent of my games as 2PA. You just learn to play it like any other game.

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ldsdbomber wrote:
What are the benefits of playing the advanced game

In two words: more fun.

ldsdbomber wrote:
do you think it requires that you're pretty comfortable with playing decently well before doing?

It does not. But you will appreciate more the freedom and depth of 2PA if you play 2P a dozen times before. Plus: I believe you will have a harder time playing 3P or 4P if you play 2PA from the beginning. It is almost a different game from 2P/3P/4P.

ldsdbomber wrote:
Can anyone give some general and perhaps even a specific example or two as to what the game gains rather than just using the one each round (other than making the game faster I suppose)

Ok, here is a very specific example. Your starting world is Epsilon Eridani (see the cards here) and your opponent has Alpha Centauri. First move and you have in your hand a 1-defense military windfall world (there are four of those in the base set, so the probability of this scenario is 20%, given the starting worlds). In 2PA, you can safely play III/$ for a nice initial income boost. In 2P, if you play III intending to sell on your next move, you run the serious risk of your opponent selling the rare element from AC on his first move and obliging you to consume your valuable resource for a single card and 1 VP.
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I actually play two player games that don't use the advanced rules. I like it better.
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Some of the reasons already mentioned. Among others...
-you can't get a 3p+ game going
-some extreme cases, I talked to someone who said building a windfall world, and then having it force consumed if someone else called IV is such a liability and "broken". 2pa is the ONLY way to go :\
-they're often faster, but I noticed that as I knew the game better, i thought longer since I now know the game well enough to do the math of one path vs. another. YMMV
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My wife and I like the two-player advanced game a lot. We don't use the second Develop or Settle cards, but we do still pick two actions. I estimate we've played at least 300 times this way.
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mekane wrote:
My wife and I like the two-player advanced game a lot. We don't use the second Develop or Settle cards, but we do still pick two actions. I estimate we've played at least 300 times this way.


...why? You're taking away important options.
 
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mugs wrote:
mekane wrote:
My wife and I like the two-player advanced game a lot. We don't use the second Develop or Settle cards, but we do still pick two actions. I estimate we've played at least 300 times this way.


...why? You're taking away important options.

In addition to removing options, if both players never do 2xD or 2xS, they are biasing the game in favor of produce/consume strategies. We added those cards specifically to allow development and big military strategies to be more competitive with produce/consume in 2PA.
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Pete Goch
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2pa almost seems like a completely different game to me. And, yes, strategies other than 2x/P are much more viable. Military/Dev hybrids (just as an example) are a blast to play and much more feasible with 2pa (talking about just the base set).
 
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mugs wrote:
mekane wrote:
We don't use the second Develop or Settle cards


...why? You're taking away important options.



Honestly, we meant to add them at some point after we had learned the game but we never got around to it. (Also, I put the game box away in the attic - out of sight out of mind).

We have found the military strategy to be pretty strong even as-is (though one always hopes for an Improved Logistics). I have really wished for the second development action a few times.

I guess I'll have to dig those cards out of the attic, though our set is so worn now that those cards will stand out. I am planning to buy a new set whenever Alien Artifacts comes out though.
 
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
mugs wrote:
mekane wrote:
My wife and I like the two-player advanced game a lot. We don't use the second Develop or Settle cards, but we do still pick two actions. I estimate we've played at least 300 times this way.


...why? You're taking away important options.

In addition to removing options, if both players never do 2xD or 2xS, they are biasing the game in favor of produce/consume strategies. We added those cards specifically to allow development and big military strategies to be more competitive with produce/consume in 2PA.
If nothing else, also ban the P/C player from choosing IVx2 and V in the same round.

TheOneTrueZeke wrote:
2pa almost seems like a completely different game to me. And, yes, strategies other than 2x/P are much more viable. Military/Dev hybrids (just as an example) are a blast to play and much more feasible with 2pa (talking about just the base set).
Not uncommon... a (somewhat) "similar" game like San Juan plays differently between 2p, 3p, and 4p that it's like 3 different games in a manner of speaking.
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